Obesity

[Bro. Curtis]

I know we are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice.(Romans 12:1)

I know gluttony is a sin.(Proverbs 23:21)

Now my question is this...

We can use biblical reasoning to keep unrepentant sinners from serving in the church. Drunkards, wife beaters, drug addicts, homosexuals, can all be turned away from a church responsibility. What of over-eaters ? Can they be turned away also ? Or should we ignore it and give them a ministry service? I'm not talking about the folks struggling with the extra 10-30 pounds. I am talking about people who don't struggle, who have accepted a way of life that is unhealthy, and see no need to change.

BTW, I weigh in at 205, and struggle to stay there.

Let's keep it nice, I am sincerely looking for how different people's responses will be.

 

[Son of Coffee Man]

You have hit the nail of the flaw in American Christianity right on the head.

While the pinnacle of our problems here in the US is not obesity it is the problem behind obesity. Again, as the thread starter, I am not talking about those who have medical issues, but those who will eat whatever they want and not care that they are overweight.

The problems is we look at that and say "well, thats NOT THAT BAD". This is a horrible lie. Overeating is lack of unrestraint in the flesh just like an addiction to porn would be. I know cuz I struggle with this. See I am only 5"11 and 170lbs, but I don't gain weight hardly at all. Consequently I just eat whatever I want to figuring it will be ok. Yet the Bible tells us to give NO PROVISION to the flesh. And while eating may seem like a small area if I am not submitting every area to the leading of Christ (that means doing what he wants not what I want) then I am giving room for the flesh to thrive.

I don't think this negates service, if the person is struggling to get victory in that area. But I don't feel like someone like that should be in a leadership position. What does that say to those who follow them: "be holy as God is holy, but when its time to eat the rulebook goes out the window"?

I realize of course that I am probably condemning at least 60% of Baptist preachers, but the point I would like to make is that a position of leadership goes far beyond the pulpit.

Well anyway that is my take on it, for now.

SoCM

 

[Depuis 1919]

I dont know am I overweight? I am 6'0'' and 165 lbs Ive always hated my body and thought I was fat but everyone says Im not I just dont believe them

[ August 05, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Depuis 1919 ]

 

[tyndale1946]

Is it that you eat to much or lack of exercise?... Get off the computer and take a brisk walk... and don't use your car to get there! I know we all eat to much but being lazy is a sin also... but our fingers are trim and slender and flexible now aren't they! We have gone from a society by working from the sweat of our brow to working by the seat of our pants! Such is our condition!... I'm 5'11 225 lbs by the way... Brother Glen

 

[tyndale1946]

I forgot to add this... We are all Baptist... And "Pot Luck"... seems to be a Baptist favorite words or What's in the cassarole dish?... Their favorite question... Brother Glen

 

[post-it]

I liked the way Mr. Curtis framed his question. It wasn't about whether it is right or wrong, but do we turn obese people out of the church in the same pattern that we turn others away. Which is "tell the to stop or else".

I have a problem with turning anyone away, not all sin is as simple as making a choice. A glutton, small or large bellied, is living a continuous life of sin in the same way that a drunkard, or wife beater does. Because someone is weak, or the fact that person A struggles whereas person B doesn't have a struggle with sin x. How is it fair to judge person A against person B standards. Sin states that aren't easily changed seem to be the ones where life-time processes have occurred and therefore can't be simply "fix" because we interpret the Bible to say it is. The Bible says "ask anything and it will be given unto you", but we know it doesn't work like that. It says to "go and sin no more" but we know it doesn't work like that. Our problem is that we accept first verse but won't accept the latter.

Some sins can end instantly and some can't. We can't throw them out of church until they turn-around, because then someone else has the opportunity to take them.

 

[crazycat]

Obesity IMHO is in the eye of the beholder. I am 5ft and 190# (my husband swears I dont look more the 170# ) I am highly functional. I can still run when responding to a code blue at work. I work 12 hour shifts without difficulty. I chase around two highly active kids. I just like to eat.
I use to feel bad beccause up to 7 years ago I was a skinny rail, unfortuanatley the gene pool conquered.(Every female in my family got huge after having kids)

I do think it is a shame when people are so obese that they can not function properly. I hate seeing 300# teenagers. That is heart breaking.

I expect that God would want us to care for our bodies as if it were the temple of the Holy Spirit. This was really emphasized when I was in Bible college. We had weigh in at the beginning of the semester and if we were over weight, we would be given a weight loss program. It usually entailed losing 3# a month which was about 12# by the end of the semester weigh in. You recieved demerts if you did not meet the weigh in goal. Now medical conditions was always evaluated. It was also monitored by a registered nurse. The purpose of this I believe was to increase discipline and prevent the freshman 15. I was fortunate enough not to have to worry about my weight at this time.

 

[HankD]

There are specific sins in the Scripture which demand the response of disfellowship...

1 Corinthinas 5:
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I don't remember any NT Scripture which specifically targets overweight as a disfellowship offense (hmm, what would happen to my local church if it were, uh, nevermind)

Obviously and from other Scriptures we must try to help the brother/sister before such a drastic step and even then there should/must be a followup ministry and prayer for those who stumble.

HankD

[ August 05, 2002, 02:03 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

[Aaron]

Gluttony and drunkenness are closely associated in the Scriptures. At one point it seems that the word drunken can be substituted for an engorged condition.

Ecclesiastes 10:17 Blessed art thou, O land, when thy king is the son of nobles, and thy princes eat in due season, for strength, and not for drunkenness!

And one of the sins of Sodom was that she was overfed:

Ezekiel 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

If I was asked to make a judgment about it now, I would have to say that overeating is indeed included in the idea of drunkenness.

I could be wrong .

 

[Paul of Eugene]

For Depuis: your height and weight are almost exactly right for each other. In fact, you need to gain a pound to be right on the money.

 

[clipper]

I think it is important to recognize that many people in the United States, Christian and nonchristian, have disordered relationships with food -- relationships that may result from years of emotional pain, abuse, or depression. It can be quite easy to see someone who is very overweight and assume that they have such a relationship when in fact they might be eating healthfully and engaging in exercise several times a week. On the other hand, we may see someone of "normal" weight who may suffer secretly from bulimia.
Rather than assuming that a brother or sister in Christ is a "glutton" from their physical appearance, I believe that we should continue to minister to those who are hurting. It saddens me that often the church can turn a hypercritical eye towards our siblings who are truly suffering.

 

[AVL1984]

Originally posted by SonofCoffeeMan:
You have hit the nail of the flaw in American Christianity right on the head.

While the pinnacle of our problems here in the US is not obesity it is the problem behind obesity. Again, as the thread starter, I am not talking about those who have medical issues, but those who will eat whatever they want and not care that they are overweight.

The problems is we look at that and say "well, thats NOT THAT BAD". This is a horrible lie. Overeating is lack of unrestraint in the flesh just like an addiction to porn would be. I know cuz I struggle with this. See I am only 5"11 and 170lbs, but I don't gain weight hardly at all. Consequently I just eat whatever I want to figuring it will be ok. Yet the Bible tells us to give NO PROVISION to the flesh. And while eating may seem like a small area if I am not submitting every area to the leading of Christ (that means doing what he wants not what I want) then I am giving room for the flesh to thrive.

I don't think this negates service, if the person is struggling to get victory in that area. But I don't feel like someone like that should be in a leadership position. What does that say to those who follow them: "be holy as God is holy, but when its time to eat the rulebook goes out the window"?

I realize of course that I am probably condemning at least 60% of Baptist preachers, but the point I would like to make is that a position of leadership goes far beyond the pulpit.

Well anyway that is my take on it, for now.

SoCM

I was "fixin" to get on the defensive there until I re-read your post...LOL I'm about 300lbs, but mine is all medical related...Steroids for an inner ear disease made me gain 65 lbs in less than six months. Also, being diabetic, it was hard to keep weight off anyway. But, the Lord has been kind and has helped to me to start losing the weight...down from over 365 to just under 300.

I believe if someone PROVES themselves to be a glutton, they should be talked to. It is not healthy, and I believe if they are a Christian they should seek the counsel of their pastor and a good dietician before they are allowed to serve. I don't think they should be prevented from serving if they've followed through on the counselling. I know that this isn't going to be a popular opinion, but, again, I remind you...I don't stand for popular opinions. If it's scriptural to stop someone who smokes from serving, it's scriptural to stop a glutton. One sin is not worse than the other.

B.T.

 

[FearNot]

This topic is close to my heart. I have been into exercise since I was in high school, been working out since '88. I have even worked in a gym for a while. People always wanted that miracle cure. It took them 55 years to get way overweight and don't want to spend more than 3 months to get back to the weight they were in college. They wouldn't stick to the nutrician plans set for them, or do enough cardio, then ask why they haven't lost 20 lbs.
A year ago found out I had igh Cholesterol, by heredity. They gave me a booklet of things to do to lower it, I looked it through and told them I already did 90% of those things. I was frustrated, but now I eat even better, I have not had a chocolate bar since then and have only had 2 pizzas from restraunts and none frozen since, it has been hard at times, but I have to be responcible. I was not and will not be one of those people who say it is too hard. Although I am in better physical shape that most my age, I have a that one thing to take watch.
I get frustrated when some tell me they can't lose weight when they do everything to train their body to gain weight (skip meals and eat tons of carbs) We in America are a fast food society and it is killing us. We have little kids vastly over weight because their parents feed them mac and cheese then send them into the playstation instead of going outside with them to play ball or go for a hike.
Do I sound hostile, yah. There are people with medical problems, but the majority of people don't want to put effort into takeing care of God's temple. They want a majic pill that will strip 40 years of poor eating off their body....laziness annoys me.
Please people God gave us our bodies, their are people who can't walk who would love to be able to go hiking, don't through that God given ability away. There are people in other countries that would love to eat some fresh fruit or vegitables, yet we ignore God's natural vitamins. We need to keep our bodies maintained, if not for ourselves but for God, it doesn't do any good for us to die 20 years early because we had to have bacon every morning. Take care of the temple God gave you, please!

 

[HankD]

In a book by Dr. Terry Shintani, The Good Carbohydrate Revolution, he maintains that America's problem with obesity is not that we eat too much but that we eat too little (of the right kinds of carbohydrates).

For instance, we eat bread made from white flour instead of whole grain. We eat white rice instead of brown rice. We use white sugar stripped of the blackstrap molasses. We eat too many foods refined of their natural nutrients.

Then, even though we have eaten too many calories, our bodies are still starved for what was refined off of these foods. Consequently we eat even more trying to satisfy the body's yearning for the missing fiber, vitamins, enzymes and nutrients.

I tried his suggestions and it worked for me. I went down 4 belt loops in 4 months by switching to brown rice, whole grains and fruit, lots of fruit, I was hooked on grapes (watermelon too) for a while. I didn't count calories or do an exercise regime although I do have much more energy and find myself running up the stairs again.

I must admit it was tough at the potlucks (ok, so I caved a couple of times).

HankD

[ August 05, 2002, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

[donnA]

The first problem I see is that when a person has problems with alchol or drugs, they can walk totally away, they don't need to have either one in their lives. But when a person is an over eater they have to have food everyday just like anyone else. Most people struggle with over eating, no one want to over eat or be over weight. Just like everyone else they have sin in their lives, the only difference being you can see the results of theirs, and maybe we don't see the results of your sin.
What you should doing is just what you'd do for anyone else who founght for victory, and that pray for them.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Excellent responses, everybody. I am in agreement with Aaron, thanx for the insightful verses. While I wouldn't kick an obese person out of fellowship, I would be very careful about putting them in a leadership role. Counselling is one thing, follow-thru is everything.

Again, thank you all.

 

[Abiyah]

What would you do if I were a member of your
church and was sick all the time. You noticed
that I did not show up at all functions, and I
often looked tired. Finally, you asked me what
was going on, and I said, "I'm just tired. Eight
hours of sleep a night are not enough." You
dug deeper, and I finallly admitted, "I have
cirrhosis of the liver."

[ August 06, 2002, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I would probably pray for you, and offer encouragement, help when needed, and fellowship. What I wouldn't offer is a position of authority in the church.

I said it already a couple times, but I will repeat. I am talking about a church office, not a membership.

 

[RomOne16]

Some of the most faithful, selfless and wonderful servents of God that I know are packing a few (sometimes quite a few) extra pounds around. These people are anything but lazy. Most have schedules that would make your head spin. And yes, they are in positions of leadership; some very prominent. I really believe that the cause of Christ would suffer in the areas of ministry of these dear people if they were made to give up their leadership positions. In the case of at least two I am thinking of, this would impact local churches across America.

I would have to agree with an earlier poster when she pointed out that we all have sin in our lives, but most are not manifest in our physical appearance. It's easy to point out and judge what is readily apparent such as obesity, but does God really want these people to step down from their ministries? I really doubt it. Sounds more like some bretheren pointing at the mote in others eyes, rather than the beam in their own.

If these people are on fire for God and being used of Him, Praise God!

.......and pass the gravy.

 

[Abiyah]

From my original note:
What would you do if I were a member of your
church and was sick all the time. You noticed
that I did not show up at all functions, and I
often looked tired. Finally, you asked me what
was going on, and I said, "I'm just tired. Eight
hours of sleep a night are not enough." You
dug deeper, and I finallly admitted, "I have
cirrhosis of the liver."

Obviously, I had an agenda in asking such a
question. 8o) My point is that what seems
obvious is not always the whole truth.

Suppose the above was me. I am about 60
pounds overweight. I admit the cirrhosis. I
just learned that I had it.

The story continues: I am studying to learn
what to do nutrionally. I learn that I must
keep myself hydrated, so I always have a
drink in my hand.

I will stop the story there. Cirrhosis. Drink.
That is the first thought isn't it. And I cannot
blame you! I told the doctor, when he first
told me that I might have it, "But I am a tea-
totaler! I haven't had alcohol since my early
20s!" His response? "Cirrhosis is not always
about alcohol."

I learned that I have a hereditary liver disease
called primary biliary cirrhosis. If I had been
a drinker, I would have been dead by now. As
it is, it causes extreme water retention, making
me overweight, but I will readily admit that
without the water retention, I would likely be
25 - 30 pounds overweight.

So my point is that, by normal--very normal!!--
assumptions about what I said and what you
saw, you would have put a very capable per-
son, who could have been a benefit to your
church, on the shelf. 8o) I am learning about
nutrition, hydrating myself, and getting
stronger. I hope to someday be a benefit to
a congregation, but if they will not use me, I
will turn to the public schools, where I plan
to do volunteer work with children who are
behind in their classes.

There is a danger for the church in turning
away believers who are willing and capable.
Talent will not lie dormant for long, and if the
churches will not use those talents, they will
find someone who will. Churches suffer now
for lack of willing hands; don't turn these
people away.

[ August 06, 2002, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: Abiyah ]