OK... I still have these nagging questions:

Speaking for myself only and on the condition that I will NOT debate this; I am only answering your questions. Should my answers spawn additional questions on your part for the purpose of information and not for the purpose of endless debate, I will endeavour to provide further answers.
If you are in agreement;my answers are as follows:

1. Yes. I believe in the rapture of the church. Of course, it is understood that there are a number of various views as to how this all pans out. In my understanding, the 'rapture' is only a partial rapture, and this subject alone can develope into dozens of pages of dialogue.

2. This passage in Matt. 24 does not illustrate a 'judgment upon the earth' as you have stated. It IS however a picture of the JSOC. It is my understanding that the JSOC takes place in the air during the time that the "tribulation period" is taking place here upon the earth. They who have been judged worthy of the Kingdom are they who return physically to the earth with the Lord at the time He comes to set up His MK. This, too, can develope into dozens of pages of dialogue and discussion.

3. You have here included three doctrines. A) The spiritual aspect of the Kingdom of God; B) Covenant Theology and C) Church discipline. Which did you wish to address? Your question here appears to be less of a question and more of a statement about your particular doctrinal bent. Consequently, I am not going to offer any answers here since they do not help to clarify anything of substance.

4. Finally, you inject your understanding of Dispensational Theology,(apparently) and you do so in such a dogmatic fashion it is apparent to me that you are baiting an argument. What Dispensational Theology fails to address is the simple fact that the "Kingdom" was given to ADAM but he forfeited it long ago in the Garden. Hence; the "Kingdom" is not exclusively an Israelitish possession, and consequently the Dispensationalists "rightly divide" a doctrine which is not to be "divided".


Your final comment is just so much patronization and insult. It hardly even deserves a reply.:smilewinkgrin:

As I said in the outset of my reply. I furnish these answers FYI only. But if you have HONEST questions so you may better UNDERSTAND our position, I will happily engage you in discussion. But if you are looking for a fight, look elsewhere. K?

 

Skypair, this kinda outta character for you. Are you mad at us? I thought the first part of the post had potential. I'd love to discuss the partial rapture with you. But I'm tired. I've been running around in circles on these issues for days with people who seemingly ask questions like a poodle trainer asking me to jump through hoops. It doesn't matter how many hoops I jump through, there's always another one and the last one is forgotten.

 

I'd like to hear more about the partial rapture.

Les

 

I missed it can you PM me the link to the post and I'll look.

I had typed up a whole big thing on the partial rapture but when I hit enter I got this crazy message about DSNs and ISPs. I tried and tried then the folks at Time warner told me to clear my cache and wala! Im Back.

I'm gonna go to bed now. My energy level is on empty so (Edited because my wife just told me that tomorrow is not Sunday and we are not adventists.)

Anyway, good night

-Lacy

 

The partial rapture is when your brains are taken to heaven first, followed much later by your bodies. It is only for ME folks, and it has already occurred.

 

I have another question that I asked in another thread:

Do the ME'ers here on the BB believe the same way as Hodges when he says one only need to believe in Jesus to be saved and that they need not believe in the crucifixion?

 

I had never heard this. Care to provide a quote, a reference to a sermon, or a book title and page number?

 

I haven't forgotten this argument. I'm chewing on it.

Where I'm holding up now is here: When reward and practical sanctification (The work-out-your-salvation-salvation) is in view we still seem to be viewed Biblically as servants.

Where salvation and our absolute (positional) righteousness In Christ is in view, we are no longer servants.

What sayest thou?

 

Once again brother Lacy, you have illustrated the dichotomy of Scriptural words. Many folks within modern Christendom have lost either the ability or the desire to study out exactly what any given doctrinal word means within its context. It seems to me that most will assume "saved" always means for eternity, "sanctification" always is passive on our part, "redemption" always is about our spirit/soul (they do not seperate the two, i.e. 'soul' vs 'spirit) and so forth.

This then is the root of the problem in my opinion. Faulty teaching and lazy study habits. Truly Paul accurately described our times when he spoke to those in his time:

Hebrews 5:12-14 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

(And what be those 'first principles of the oracles of God'? Simply the truth of a Kingdom lost and the Kingdom soon to be restored.)

 

Are you saying that those of us out here in "Christendom" that don't accept the kingdom theology that you teach are just lazy in our Bible studies? We're still on milk and not solid food?

 

No surprise you would take umbrage with the word "lazy" and ignore "faulty teaching". While you (personally) may not be lazy it is apparent you have accepted faulty teaching.

And yes. If you haven't matured beyond Christ crucified, buried and resurrected on the third day, you are still on the milk of the word.

You need not agree with every tenet of every pastor/teacher within Kingdom Accountability theology to mature beyond the erroneous teaching that Scripture is ALL about salavtion from sin. Before sin ever entered creation, a Kingdom was given to man. He forfeited it and the rest of Scripture is the history of God's restoration of that Kingdom to A MAN.

I have made it clear that the Scripture BEGINS with a Kingdom and ENDS with a Kingdom, yet nobody has yet stepped to the plate to prove it wrong. They can't. Scripture is the history told and foretold about this Kingdom. And this Kingdom is a literal physical visible Kingdom with Spiritual aspects.

Therefore; until you come to understand the truths of this Kingdom, yes, you are still dining on milk.

 

Yes. Even the greatest theologians and most brilliant minds are lazy and unschooled, since they don't agree with ME. Joey "Faustus" Faust, on the other hand, is eating meat and has an unparalleled intellectual grasp of the gospel. Too bad he's too lazy to get a clue as to what the pre-wrath rapture is (hint: does not even resemble mid-trib, as he claims), but let's not pick nits.
.

 

Not surprised at your response.
I'm not dining on milk, but you are dining on a false teaching.

There's not much else to say.

 

The ME motto for doctrinal ................wrong.

 

You have been reported.