Old Testamant

[Salty]

I am starting this thread due to the comments about the family with some 20 kids.

Comments were made the Bible says "Go ye and multiply"

Also in Books such as Proverbs - its "Train up a child in the way of the Lord and he will not depart"

So this is a multi question thread.
1. are we in the age of Grace and we no longer must obey the Old Testament Law (go...multipy)
2. Are passages in Proverbs actually promises, or are they more so good advice - without guarantee.
(for example - godly parents may raise a child - but is that a guarantee that the child will not end up bad.
3. Ok to go into other areas, such as tithing ect, that were required in OT times. But try to bring up several other examples as well

and let the arguments begin

Salty

Oops, I mean strong discussions:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Winman]

God did say be fruitful and multiply, but this was not Moses law. I don't think it necessarily a sin to have few children, or no children at all.

There is an implied promise in this command that God will provide for us. This is a command that tests your faith and whether it is real or not.

Not saying that folks with few kids don't have faith, but you can be fairly certain that those who have many kids do.

Don't compare married couples with many kids who work to those fellows who have many children with many women, they depend on the state, not God.

 

[luke1616]

Genesis 1

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

[Salty]

Genesis 1
27 So God created man in his own image, ...

28 ... and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, ...

Okay, My Bible says the same thing - your comment? (based on the OP)

 

[annsni]

I agree with Winman that the "go forth and multiply" was not the law but the very first directive given to mankind even before the fall. So this was God's perfect plan for mankind - to procreate.

 

[Dr. Bob]

As a youth I learned the chorus "Every promise in the Book is mine. Every chapter, every verse, every line."

It was/is/will always be WRONG.

Paul reminds the Corinthians (and us) that the stories/teaching of the OT was - "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction" and therefore have great value.

But much of it has little or nothing to do with believers today.

 

[The Archangel]

As a youth I learned the chorus "Every promise in the Book is mine. Every chapter, every verse, every line."

It was/is/will always be WRONG.

Paul reminds the Corinthians (and us) that the stories/teaching of the OT was - "Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction" and therefore have great value.

But much of it has little or nothing to do with believers today.

Bob,

I'm interested as to why you make this last statement (beyond, of course, the paragraph in the middle). Can you expand on why you think the OT has little or nothing to do with believers today?

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[convicted1]

1. are we in the age of Grace and we no longer must obey the Old Testament Law (go...multipy)

Bro. Salty,as far as the "go and multiply", that has already be adequately addressed, I believe. Now, we do not obey the OT law anymore. We are under grace now. When Jesus died, He fulfilled the Law, and put the Grace Covenant "wheels" in motion.

2. Are passages in Proverbs actually promises, or are they more so good advice - without guarantee.
(for example - godly parents may raise a child - but is that a guarantee that the child will not end up bad.

I believe that Proverbs is fulfilled, meaning, we can't live "by" the OT law anymore. They(Proverbs) can be used as "good instructing tools" in childrearing, but the NT also has scripture in regards to how each family member is to treat each other. Husbands love your wives, wives give reverence to your husbands, children obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right(Eph6:1).

3. Ok to go into other areas, such as tithing ect, that were required in OT times. But try to bring up several other examples as well

Tithing is not a requirement now, I do not believe. God loves a cheerful giver, and tithing today is a requirement from that church that requires a tithe. I read of in Genesis where Abraham(maybe he was Abram at that time) where he gave a tenth of the "spoils" of war to King Melchisdec(sp?). But this was a "bounty" and not necessarily money that was given. The High Priest was to take a "tenth" of the meat that was offered for a sacrifice for himself, but again, that wasn't money. I believe that the "tithe" that people give today(money) isn't supported by scripture....I mean that giving money was never part of the "tithe", whether it was before the OT law, or in the NT Grace Covenant. :thumbs:

i am I am's!!

Willis

 

[freeatlast]

I am starting this thread due to the comments about the family with some 20 kids.

Comments were made the Bible says "Go ye and multiply"

Also in Books such as Proverbs - its "Train up a child in the way of the Lord and he will not depart"

So this is a multi question thread.
1. are we in the age of Grace and we no longer must obey the Old Testament Law (go...multipy)
2. Are passages in Proverbs actually promises, or are they more so good advice - without guarantee.
(for example - godly parents may raise a child - but is that a guarantee that the child will not end up bad.
3. Ok to go into other areas, such as tithing ect, that were required in OT times. But try to bring up several other examples as well

and let the arguments begin

Salty

Oops, I mean strong discussions:smilewinkgrin:

2 Tim 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All means old and new, ALL
While we are not to follow the letter but the spirit we are to base our lives on the precepts of God.

 

[Old Union Brother]

Bob,

I'm interested as to why you make this last statement (beyond, of course, the paragraph in the middle). Can you expand on why you think the OT has little or nothing to do with believers today?

Blessings,

The Archangel

I would like to know the answer this as well.:BangHead:

 

[MNJacob]

A small but important point,

"Also in Books such as Proverbs - its "Train up a child in the way of the Lord and he will not depart""

is a misquote.

Proverbs 22:6 NASB "Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it."

Many folks read this verse and imply that it is written as the OP quoted it.

The sense of most commentators is that a more proper paraphrase would be that is you train up a child in the way he/she is inclined, he will not depart from that way.

We have had prior discussions on this board on this topic, and many here do not share that interpretation.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Bob,

I'm interested as to why you make this last statement . . why you think the OT has little or nothing to do with believers today?

Open your Bible to Leviticus and start reading. How much of this is of benefit to the NT Church?

Stories of Israel et al are wonderful illustration/example (as Paul said in Corinthians) but not applicable to the church function today.

Now Psalms and Proverbs have many eternal truths for believers of all times. And other selected passages of course.

But the bulk of the OT gives general example and instruction but NOT like Ephesians or Philippians or James on our NT Church life.

The OT and iuts Old Covenant serves a purpose, but must be kept clearly distinct from the NT and New Covenant. Blending them leads to horrendous errors (like infant baptism replacing circumcision, promises to national Israel applied to the church, etc) of covenant theology.

 

[MB]

1. are we in the age of Grace and we no longer must obey the Old Testament Law (go...multipy)

Yes to the first part and no to the second part. To get a better answer ask your self " is the Law God's will ? "

2. Are passages in Proverbs actually promises, or are they more so good advice - without guarantee.
(for example - godly parents may raise a child - but is that a guarantee that the child will not end up bad.

The best answer I can give is an example. I have two brothers and I'm the only one who continues in the faith taught us all by our parents.

3. Ok to go into other areas, such as tithing ect, that were required in OT times. But try to bring up several other examples as well.

[/QUOTE]
I believe giving is an important part of spiritual growth. Tithing is a good thing to do but it is a law for the Jews not a necessity for Christians today. I could tithe 10% but I'd end up giving because I have to. God loves a cheerfull giver. I give what the Lord places on my heart to give. I have given all I received at times and at times I didn't give a cent. I try to rely on the Lords leading.
MB

 

[RAdam]

The book of Leviticus is a great benefit to believers today. It is all about our Lord Jesus Christ and what He did at Calvary. How could that not be a great benefit to God's people today.

Another misnomer is that we aren't under the law anymore. We both are and aren't. We aren't under the ceremonial law, it has been fulfilled in Christ. We aren't under the law in the sense of trying to be justified by it. But, we are under the law to Christ. God's law is eternal. We are to keep God's eternal moral law just as much today as at any time in history.

God hasn't commanded man to have many or few children. The bible does say that children are like arrows and that those that have a quiver full are happy. But, that doesn't mean those without a quiver full are unhappy. That also doesn't mean it is a sin not to have a quiver full. I've known people with 1 or 2 kids that wanted more but couldn't.

 

[The Archangel]

Open your Bible to Leviticus and start reading. How much of this is of benefit to the NT Church?

Stories of Israel et al are wonderful illustration/example (as Paul said in Corinthians) but not applicable to the church function today.

Now Psalms and Proverbs have many eternal truths for believers of all times. And other selected passages of course.

But the bulk of the OT gives general example and instruction but NOT like Ephesians or Philippians or James on our NT Church life.

The OT and iuts Old Covenant serves a purpose, but must be kept clearly distinct from the NT and New Covenant. Blending them leads to horrendous errors (like infant baptism replacing circumcision, promises to national Israel applied to the church, etc) of covenant theology.

Dr. Bob,

I definitely see your point--especially about infant baptism and covenant theology. I am much more a "New Covenant" theology guy. I almost think one has to be to be a baptist (a topic for another time).

I think Leviticus, for example, can be invaluable in showing that God really cares how His people carry His name. Not that every thou shalt and thou shalt not carries over to the New Testament, but I think the thou shalts and the thou shalt nots can and should inform our understanding of the New Testament.

Thanks for your reply.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

[Dr. Bob]

I am between new covenant and progressive dispensational so see the wonderful "types" and "examples" and teaching.

But face it. 99% of Leviticus is 1-2-3 instructions for a way of worship now passed away. As is the old covenant.

 

[Amy.G]

I am between new covenant and progressive dispensational so see the wonderful "types" and "examples" and teaching.

But face it. 99% of Leviticus is 1-2-3 instructions for a way of worship now passed away. As is the old covenant.

But those 1-2-3 instructions had a purpose. Everything pointed the way to Christ and it's very important for all Christians to see this.

 

[quantumfaith]

My OT professor in college made the hebrew scriptures come So alive for me. Stories, narratives, history, poetry, prophecy all telling HIStory, redemptive history. Paving the way for the ultimate revelation of God to man in His son. I find all scripture interesting and poignant in my faith.

Thank You Dr. J.W. Lee for the profound influence that you had on my life and walk with Christ.
:godisgood:

 

[Old Union Brother]

In another thread we discussed that the law was a schoolmaster

Galations:
3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[BobinKy]

I love studying the Old Testament. And I do NOT subscribe to any form of dispensational theology. For me, the Old Testament is alive, as is the New Testament. So many Christians today are ignorant about the Old Testament. Preachers need to preach more from the Old Testament: History, poetry, and prophets. We are repeating many of the mistakes of the Israelites. We need it all--Genesis through Malachi. Please do not add to this ignorance by suggesting any part of the Old Testament is out-of-date or irrelevant.

Study, teach, and preach the whole Bible.

:godisgood:

...Bob