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On Racial Characterization and Liberal Blacks

Discussion in '2008 Archive' started by Pastor Larry, Feb 1, 2007.

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  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    In a thread that was unfortunately closed, FilmProducer made some unconscionable and unfounded charges of what amount to racism.

    I never made any racial characterizations at all. It is completely and utterly unacceptable for such charges to be made by Film Producer. The fact that she can name liberal blacks who are articulate and well spoken does not mean that most are not. Most liberal whites, conservative whites, and conservative blacks are also not well spoken, but film producer did not bother to think about that. Talking about failing to think before responding.

    Film Producer, you have erred egregiously by playing the race card in this discussion. Do not do that. If you have questions about something that was said, then please ask. Before you make these charges, try to think about what was actually said.

    My comments were strictly political, not racial in any way. And I detest any suggestion by you that they were racial.
     
    #1 Pastor Larry, Feb 1, 2007
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    Pastor Larry

    I read the earlier thread. I was also surprised at some of the posts that stated as fact "most liberal blacks are not articulate....etc." I can see how that could be taken as a racist comment, even if you didn't intend it the be that way.

    Perhaps you could have said, "I find that most liberal blacks that I am familiar with are not particularly articulate or well-spoken".

    BTW, I disagree with you that the well-known liberal black leaders are not articulate or well-spoken; even though I am opposed to their politics.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #2 canadyjd, Feb 1, 2007
  3. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Pastor Larry,

    Some posters here on the BB might take this last sentence of your as a racial characterization.

    I'm not saying that you did. I don't have a dog in that fight. I just asking you to reconsider how your original words may have come across. If she read you that way and if I could see it a little bit and the above poster, canadyjd, saw it, then perhaps you should re-read your own post?

    I know that I have come across as meaning things before when I did not intend them.

    You say that now. But you did not say that all people were not well spoken before....only liberal blacks. In fact, you implied that conservative blacks were articulate by pointing out two of them.

    How could she or anyone else respond to these other three groups being equally inarticulate and poorly spoken when you did not say that.

    She was only responding to what you said.

    And I am not defending her nor condemning you, I just am asking that you look at your post again.

    I know that you detest being misunderstood. And I understand that you have the need to clarify yourself.

    Maybe you could clarify by saying that you were speaking about two particular African Americans leaders who get thrust into the media quite often who are inarticulate and not well-spoken who just happen to be liberal?
     
    #3 Scarlett O., Feb 1, 2007
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    There is no reasonable way to conclude from my comments that I made any racial characterizations. The only way that can be done is to assume something about what I did not say. That is a poor way to carry on a conversation. If you have questions about what I did not say, then ask. Don't assume.

    The truth is that most liberal blacks are not articulate and bright.

    The truth is that most conservative blacks are not articulate and bright.

    The truth is that most liberals of any color are not articulate and bright.

    The truth is that most conservatives of any color are not articulate and bright.

    Now, I made one of those statements. It was assumed, illegitimately, that I was makign the negative of the other statements. That is unacceptable.

    Scarlett, you say How could she or anyone else respond to these other three groups being equally inarticulate and poorly spoken when you did not say that. She was only responding to what you said.

    This is the problem: She did not respond to what I said. She responded to what I did not say, using my silence to attribute racial characterization. Nothing could be farther from the truth. She assumed I was comparing black liberals negatively to white conservatives or white liberals. Yet when you go back and read what I said, you see I did nothing of the sort. And if you respond to what I said, then your response must be confined to the ideas contained in what I said.

    My words could have included the idea Film Producer inferred from them. But they did not necessarily include them, and she should not have inferred them without clarification about what I did not say. So clearly, she did not respond to what I said, but rather what I did not say.

    And this kind of inarticulation reigns here in this kind of scenario. People take what is said, and assume things about what is not said, and make inarticulate arguments on that basis.

    It is wrong. It should never have happened. And it should not be tolerated. Every person on this forum should object to the characterization of remarks in the manner that Film Producer used. If she does it to me, it will not be long until she does it to you, and paints you as something you are not, because of something you did not say.

    We have a great lack of civil and intelligent conversation in this country, and this is exactly the reason. Someone makes a perfectly clear statement, and people read into it their own prejudices and ideas, and then make accusations. That is wrong
     
    #4 Pastor Larry, Feb 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 1, 2007
  5. The Galatian

    The Galatian Active Member

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    Sometimes, as Senator Biden, and Larry have discovered, no matter what you do to try to clear up what you meant, additional attempts only make it worse.

    Let's all assume that nobody meant anything racist, no matter how badly it might have sounded.
     
    #5 The Galatian, Feb 1, 2007
  6. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I would add Jimmy Carter and John Kerry to your short list.
     
    #6 carpro, Feb 1, 2007
  7. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    Biden clears things up

    Today Sen Biden cleared up his statement concerning Obama. The biggest concern seems to be over the word "clean" which he says was taken out of context. Report:

    Reporters on the conference call peppered Mr. Biden with questions about the Obama remarks, and he said the "clean" word probably came from an old saying his mother used: "Clean as a whistle, sharp as a tack." He described Mr. Obama as "crisp and clear."

    I believe him. I have heard that word used when referring to someone who is always impeccably dressed and groomed. The media is making more out of this word then the terms "bright and articulate". I cant recall ever hearing bright and articulate used when referring to a white. It is as if upon hearing a black man who is well-spoken it is a rare thing. That is what I got from Biden's statement.
    I have heard it especially used by sports announcers when talking about a black athlete who can carry on an intelligent two way conversation. "I find *......... *............. to be very bright and articulate."
     
    #7 Ps104_33, Feb 1, 2007
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    We have a saying in my old country: daghang istorya, daghang sayop.
    Meaning: more talk, more mistakes.
     
    #8 pinoybaptist, Feb 1, 2007
  9. Filmproducer

    Filmproducer Guest

    This is the only comment I will make to this thread. Pastor Larry, do not assume you know what I was thinking when I responded to your comment. It does not matter that you did not lump other groups into your comment. You specifically made a RACIAL CHARACTERIZATION and then tried to justify your thinking by comparing well known conservative black Americans to Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.

    Your comments may not have been racist but they are certainly RACIAL. There is a difference. The more you try to explain your comment the worse you are digging yourself into a whole. There was absolutely NO REASON why ANYONE should have been debating how articulate, or bright, or intelligent anyone in the black community was or is, yesterday or today. The thread was about Senator Biden, not black people. That was my problem with the entire thread, people making foot in mouth, i.e. typing before thinking, comments and not realizing how they come off. I repeatedly asked for racial characterizations to be left out altogether. That means ALL racial characterizations, not just ones about liberal blacks.

    BTW, as a moderator I thought that the BB rules state that if you have a probelm with a poster you take it to the PM's. Since it is quite obvious from this thread you have a problem with me and the fact that I did not take whatever into account, as if that was necessary.
     
    #9 Filmproducer, Feb 1, 2007
  10. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I am closing this thread - It is not news, even though it is about comments made regarding a previous news item which was closed according to the news forum rules.

    Please, let us take a breath, step back, and remember that sometimes comments made in cyberspace are taken in a way which they were not intended to be taken. No one here has the right to judge what is in another member's heart. No one. Personal attacks will be deleted, but comments that are made in a broad sense about what public figures have said and news items about them will not be deleted. As long as no BB posting rules are broken, we do still have Freedom of Speech under the First Amendment of the US Constitution, and everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. If you have disagreements with each other, please try to resolve them by PMs, as indicated in the posting rules.

    Any future threads about issues that need to be discussed by PM between members will be deleted without warning.

    Lady Eagle,
    Moderator
     
    #10 LadyEagle, Feb 1, 2007
  11. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    I am reopening this thread to let PL respond to the accusations leveled against him and then it will be locked up with no further ado. LE
     
    #11 LadyEagle, Feb 1, 2007
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I made no racial characterization. It was a characterization about politics and articulation. The truth is that very few people of any color or political stripe are articulate. That was the point and it should have been accepted as that. The particular case I was responding to dealt with black leaders and articulation. So I commented on that. My comments should never have been construed to apply to any other segment.

    You cannot level charges of race issues and not expect to be confronted about them. That kind of speech should be reserved for cases of actual racism and racial remarks. To include these kinds of discussions in those categories does a disservice to genuine racism.

    As for handling it publicly, I did so because the charges were public. Had you made those charges privately, I would have handled privately.
     
    #12 Pastor Larry, Feb 1, 2007
  13. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington New Member

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    Like the President you support, you seem to have difficulity admitting to a mistake.
     
    #13 Terry_Herrington, Feb 1, 2007
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I don't support the president fully. Unlike many, I recognize that he has done both good and bad. If you dealt truthfully with my posts, then you would know that.

    Furthemore, I made no mistake in my post. i was extremely clear and only biased reading could make the illegitimate conclusions that were made.
     
    #14 Pastor Larry, Feb 1, 2007
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