on the subject of gossip.....

What made the first thread gossip was the personal, scandalous details.

 

Any details concerning the children as they grew up and the problems they had. Any details concerning negative feelings the family members were suppose to have had about the man. Any details concerning what other people were suppose to have said.

 

So that would make almost every post in the Calvinism/Arminianism forum gossip then right? I can't believe some of the things people say about CHRISTIAN brothers and sisters.

 

The definition of gossip does not make it necessary to include a person's name. It doesn't even matter if the comments are true. It is gossip if you repeat personal, scandalous information. It also doesn't have to include motives. IMO, motivations do not matter. The nature of the information is what makes it gossip.

 

I don't post in the Calvinism/Arminianism forum, so I wouldn't know.

 

I have not said what occurred in the second thread was not gossip.

 

JD -

The bible actually says, "Thou shalt not bear false wittness." That's where we get the phrase "you shouldn't gossip from."

I went out of my way in that thread to be sure I did follow that commandment.

1) I stuck to the truth as I knew it to be.
2) I avoided labeling the man.
3) I had honorable intentions. I wanted to know if I had done the right thing. I wanted Christian advice.

One reason I shared the "details" (which by the way, were not details), is because if I'd just said, "What should you do if a man is unfit for the pulpit, and...." because it wasn't my place to declare him unfit.

If I said, "I have doubts," it would have left too much unspoken in regards to how severe the doubts were or weren't.

Now, you've left me in a bit of a quandry. I actually feel that the only way to disprove your accusations of gossip would be to supply you with what you think you already have - the details to the story. Details that really aren't any of your business.

You have a general outline of the matters of concern. Nothing more.

 

By the way, you never know how information like this can get back to people. How do you know a relative doesn't visit this board? How do you know if someone who was a member of the same church as TS, knows she uses that sign in name, moved to another state, and now is a member of the church considering him for a pastorate? How do you know that another member who visits the board, saw the post and notified the man involved?

How do you know that someone from the church the pastor has applied to, doesn't visit this board? How do you know if search committe members from 50 different churches that are interviewing pastors that have pastored in Texas and have four grown children, are now having second thoughts about a candidate, based on what was said?

A little far fetched? Maybe, but you never know how such information can make it's way back to people.

There was a way this could have been done without providing the details that made it gossip.

 

Gossip is anything which will damage another. It can be true or false.

 

REALLY???

Share it........ please.

 

JD,

Regarding your questions. Since I have never said where the man was, where he is now, or where and when I knew him - odds are slim anyone who might know him who did it would know who I spoke of.

Odds go even lower when you figure that they don't know who ~I~ am.

Odds go even LOWER when you learn that the people who are the man's search committee don't KNOW that I was asked about this. They asked a man I know for his opinion. He knows that only a very few people know the details, and that we've kept the secret, so he came to me and said, "What should I do? If I recommend him, and I'm wrong, I've wronged a church. If I refuse to recommend him, without saying why, I may have cost him a pulpit because who knows what they will imagine, if I recommend him and tell them why, I may be bringing up things that he's overcome. What should I say?"

And my answer to that man was "Pray about it, maybe investigate it further."

I couldn't and wouldn't go to my own church or to his about this, because that WOULD be spreading gossip.

I thought coming to strangers who were Christian and asking for their advice was the best thing to do.

Obviously you feel I need to be beaten with a cat-of-nine-tails for that, but I truly, truly was trying to figure out what was the best thing from a Godly standpoint, and which was worse. Keeping that kind of information from a search committee or sharing that kind of information with a search committee.

Next time, instead of asking for Christian advice, I'll just tell the people, "I'll never recommend that man," and let the chips fall where they may, and the imaginations run where they will.

 

BillyMac

A thread could have been started that asked how does a pastor's relationship with his family effect his qualifications for ministry and what responsibility (if any) does a church have in providing negative information to another church that a former pastor is a candidate for.

 

Going by that definition every personal, scandalous story in the Bible would be gossip. And so would the news.

 

JD,

If I had asked the question the way you suggested I would have been pointed to Timothy and the verses that say a man should have his house in order.

Which wouldn't really address the issue. What IS having your house in order? What counts as "not in order?" How "unorderly" is "too unorderly"? Do the sins of the children reflect on the father?

I might, eventually, have gotten a real answer, but as it is, it came up pretty quickly that most felt the man should be given the benefit of the doubt, which is what I did.

 

TexasSky

Proverbs 20:19 says something about gossip. The word there is taken from two words that literally mean "to make bear, reveal, to be naked." The second word means "to open the lips." It has connotations of openly revealing something that is shameful about another. It doesn't mean it has to be false, it doesn't mean your motivations have to be bad, though they often are bad. (No, I didn't say your motivations were bad.) That is where we get the definition of gossip, not from "do not bear false witness".

In the N.T., Paul uses several words for gossip. Some have the meaning of a "false accuser" (one is "diablos" from which we get "devil") (No, I am not calling you the devil)

Another word means "to bubble", i.e. a tattler, a whisperer, a slanderer.

All of the words have in common the idea of revealing details about someones life.

 

I don't think either post is gossip.