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On The Use of The Greek ὑπέρ and ἀντί

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
On The Use of The Greek ὑπέρ and ἀντί

There are some who have little or know knowledge or understanding of the Greek language, who have taken it upon themselves, to ignore or reject, the FACT, that the Greek preposition ὑπέρ, in indeed used in Classic, Attic and Koine Greek, for INSTEAD OF.

2 Corinthians 5:21

“For him who knew no sin he made to be sin for (ὑπέρ) us; so that in him we might become the righteousness of God”

Galatians 3:13

“Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for (ὑπέρ) us. For it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”

Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45

“even as the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom (λύτρον, price of release, the price for redeeming, ransom, sum paid for redemption of a pledge, atonement) for (ἀντί) many.”

These verses speak of the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ. In the Epistles of Paul, we have the Greek preposition ὑπέρ, used. In the Gospels, it is ἀντί. It is clear from the evidence of the uses of these prepositions, that they are interchangeable, and their meaning overlap. Both are used for INSTEAD OF.

Samuel Green Handbook to the Grammar of the Greek Testament

As a service is often rendered on behalf of another by being offered in his stead, the notion of ὑπέρ may become interchangeable with ἀντί

William Jelf A Grammar of the Greek Language

ὑπέρ, Substitution forone thing being placed as it were over another and thus substituted for it: Eur. Ale. 700

George Winer A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek

In most cases he who acts in behalf on another appears for him (1 Tim. ii.6, 2 Cor. v.15), and hence ὑπέρ somethimes borders on ἀντί, instead of

Colin Brown New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology

hyper E. A. Abbott, Johannine Grammar, 1906, 276). Very similar is the Pauline affirmation that "one died for all" (heis hyper pantbn apethanen), where, as R. Bultmann notes (Der Zweite Brief an die Korinther, 1976, 152 f.), hyper is shown to bear a substitutionary sense by the inference Paul draws: "therefore all died" (2 Cor. 5:14). The death of Christ was the death of all, because he was dying their death. In becoming the object of divine wrath against human sin, Christ was acting vicariously, viz., hyper hembn, not only "on our behalf or "with a view to our good" but "in our place" (2 Cor. 5:21; Gal. 3:13). He assumed the liabilities of others in "being made sin" and "becoming a curse" (katara, "abstractum pro concreto: bearer of the curse", H. Riesenfeld, hyper, TDNT VIII 509; see also A. T. Robertson, Grammar, 631).

H E Dana and J R Mantey A Manual Grammar of The Greek New Testament

Instead of. Jn. 11:50, "it is expedient for you that one man should die instead of the people, ὑπὲρ τοῦ λαοῦ, and not that the whole nation perish"; Gal. 3:13, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse instead of us, ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν In both of these passages the context clearly indicates that substitution is meant (cf. 2 Cor. 5:14, 15); Cat. of Gr. Papyri, 94:15.

Daniel Wallace The Basics of New Testament Syntax

Significant passages involving ὑπέρ: concerning the substitutionary atonement (ὑπέρ+ gen.).21 The normal preposition used in texts that purportedly deal with Christ’s substitutionary atonement is ὑπέρ (though ἀντί is used in Matt 20:28 / Mark 10:45). However, the case for a substitutionary sense for ὑπέρ is faced with the difficulty that the preposition can bear several other nuances that, on a lexical level, at least, are equally plausible in the theologically significant passages. It is to be noted, however, that BAGD does consider ὑπέρ to have a substitutionary sense on occasion (though they list only one text that bears on the atonement—2 Cor 5:14).

ὑπέρ is, in fact, naturally suited to the meaning of substitution and is used in several passages dealing with the nature of Christ’s atonement. On behalf of the view that ὑπέρ has at least a substitutionary sense to it in passages dealing with the atonement are the following arguments.
  • The substitutionary sense is found in extra-NT Greek literature. It rarely bears this force in classical Greek, a bit more in the LXX, and extensively in the nonliterary papyri.22 As time progressed, increasingly ὑπέρ encroached on ἀντί’s domain. Indeed, one reason for previous resistance to the idea of a substitutionary ὑπέρ is that such instances were hard to find in the classical era. But throughout the Koine period ὑπέρ began to encroach more and more on the meanings of ἀντί , though never fully phasing it out. It was a relatively common phenomenon for one grammatical or lexical form to swallow up the uses of another in the Hellenistic period.

  • ὑπέρ is used in a substitutionary sense in soteriologically insignificant passages in the NT, thus establishing such a nuance in the NT. Cf. Rom 9:3;Philemon 13.

  • ὑπέρ is used with a substitutionary force in at least one soteriologically significant passage, admitted even by BAGD: 2 Cor 5:14. As well, there are other soteriologically significant texts in which it is difficult to deny a substitutionary sense to ὑπέρ: Gal 3:13; John 11:50.
Joseph Thayer Greek Lexicon

ὑπέρ.in the place of, instead of (which is more precisely expressed by ἀντί; hence, the two prepositions are interchanged by Irenaeus, adv. haer. 5, 1, τῷ ἰδίῳ αἵματι λυτρωσαμένου ἡμᾶς τοῦ κυρίου καί δόντος τήν ψυχήν ὑπέρ τῶν ἡμετέρων ψυχῶν καί τήν σάρκα τήν ἑαυτοῦ ἀντί τῶν ἡμετέρων σαρκῶν): ἵνα ὑπέρ σου μοι διακονῇ, Phm_1:13; ὑπέρ τῶν νεκρῶν βαπτίζεσθαι (see βαπτίζω, at the end), 1Co_15:29; (add, Col_1:7 L text Tr text WH text); in expressions concerning the death of Christ: εἷς ὑπέρ πάντων ἀπέθανεν (for the inference is drawn ἄρα οἱ πάντες ἀπέθανον, i. e. all are reckoned as dead), 2Co_5:14(15),15; add, 21; Gal_3:13

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott Greek Lexicon

πέρ.for, instead of, in the name of, ὑ. ἑαυτοῦ τι προϊδεῖν on his own behalf, Th. 1.141; ὑ. τινὸς ἀποκρίνεσθαι Pl. R. 590a; προλέγειν X. An. 7.7.3; ἐπεὶ οὖν σὺ σιωπᾷς, ἐγὼ λέξω καὶ ὑ. σοῦ καὶ ὑ. ἡμῶν Id. Cyr. 3.3.14, cf. S. El. 554; ὑ. Ζήνωνος πράσσων as Zeno's representative, PSI 4.389.8 (iii B. C.); ἔγραψεν ὑ. αὐτῶν διὰ τὸ φάσκειν αὐτοὺς μὴ εἰδέναι γράμματα PGrenf. 2.17.9 (ii B. C.); θεάσασθε ὃν τρόπον ὑμεῖς ἐστρατηγηκότες πάντ' ἔσεσθ' ὑ. Φιλίππου as though by commission from P., D. 3.6; so in other dialects c. acc., v. infr. B. v.

F W Gingrich and F W Danker Greek Lexicon

ὑπέρ.for, in behalf of mankind, the world, etc.: Mk 14:24 ; Lk 22:19 f ; Ro 5:6 , 8 ; 8:32 ; 14:15 ; 1 Cor 1:13 (where the expr. mh; Pau`lo" ejstaurwvqh uJpe;r uJmw`n ; was chosen for no other reason than its ref. to the redeeming death of Christ); 11:24 ; 15:3 ; Gal 2:20 ; 3:13...in place of, instead of, in the name of ( Eur. ; Polyb. 3, 67, 7; Jos. , C. Ap. 2, 142;—in pap. very oft. uJpe;r aujtou` to explain that the writer is writing ‘as the representative of’ an illiterate pers. ; Dssm. LO 285, 2 [ LAE 335, 4]) i{na uJpe;r sou` moi diakonh`/ Phlm 13

Gerhard Kittel and Gerhard Friedrich Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

Paul develops the saving significance of Christ’s death with the help of typology in Gal. 3:13 and 2 Cor. 5:21. Jesus in his death vicariously takes the curse for us, and thus secures our liberation from the law. In this context hypér has the sense of “in our favor” but also “in our place or stead.”

English Meaning of: “In/On Behalf of”

Oxford English Dictionary (multi volume)

On the part of (another), in the name of, as the agent or representative of, on account of, for, instead of. (With the notion of official agency.)

Oxford Learner's Dictionaries

on behalf of somebody...as the representative of somebody or instead of them

Macmillan English Dictionary

instead of someone, or as a representative of someone
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Cont...

William Hendriksen Commentary

It is, indeed, difficult to conceive of the majestic Christ as being accursed. What! Jesus anathema? In the face of I Cor. 12:3 how would one dare to say that? This becomes all the more a problem when we consider that we generally—and rightly—associate the curse with sin, and Christ had no sin (Isa. 53:9; John 8:46; II Cor. 5:21; I Peter 2:22). The only solution is the one supplied by the beautiful words of Isa. 53:6: “Jehovah laid on him the iniquity of us all”; cf. also verses 10–12. Christ’s curse-bearing, then, was vicarious: “Him who knew no sin he made to be sin for our sake, in order that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (II Cor. 5:21). This eminently scriptural truth of Christ’s substitutionary atonement is being denied by ever so many people

John Calvin

But how does it happen, it will be asked, that a beloved Son is cursed by his Father? We reply, there are two things which must be considered, not only in the person of Christ, but even in his human nature. The one is, that he was the unspotted Lamb of God, full of blessing and of grace; the other is, that he placed himself in our room, and thus became a sinner, and subject to the curse, not in himself indeed, but in us, yet in such a manner, that it became necessary for him to occupy our place. He could not cease to be the object of his Father’s love, and yet he endured his wrath. For how could he reconcile the Father to us, if he had incurred his hatred and displeasure? We conclude, that he “did always those things that pleased” (Joh_8:29) his Father. Again, how would he have freed us from the wrath of God, if he had not transferred it from us to himself? Thus, “he was wounded for our transgressions,” (Isa_53:5,) and had to deal with God as an angry judge.

Jamieson Fausset Brown Reformed Commentary

A curse for us - having become what we were, in our behalf [ huper (G5228) heemoon (G2257): Philem 13 sanctions also 'in our stead'], "a curse," that we might cease to be it. Not merely accursed, but a curse, bearing the curse of the whole human race. 'He was called a curse for my sake who does away my curse' (Gregory Nazianzene). So 2Co_5:21, "sin for us;" not sinful, but bearing the whole sin of our race, regarded as one vast aggregate (see note). 'Anathema' means 'set apart to God's glory,' but to the person's own destruction; "curse" [ Katara (G2671)] is an execration.

A T Robertson Greek Scholar

Having become a curse for us (genomenos huper hēmōn katara). Here the graphic picture is completed. We were under (hupo) a curse, Christ became a curse over (huper) us and so between us and the overhanging curse which fell on him instead of on us. Thus he bought us out (ek) and we are free from the curse which he took on himself. This use of huper for substitution is common in the papyri and in ancient Greek as in the N.T. (Joh_11:50; 2Co_5:14.).

Kenneth Wuest Word Studies

A vivid picture of it all is given us in the three expressions, under the curse (3:10), made a curse for (above) us (3:13), and redeemed us out from under the curse (3:13). Sinners were under the curse. Christ came above us, thus between us and the curse. He took the blow of the Damascus blade that hung over us, and took us out from under the curse, having become a curse above us. The word above is the root meaning of huper, the preposition of substitution, used already in this epistle by Paul to speak of the substitutionary character of our Lord's death.

John Gill Reformed Commentary

made a curse for us; the sense of which is, not only that he was like an accursed person, looked upon as such by the men of that wicked generation, who hid and turned away their faces from as an abominable execrable person, calling him a sinner, a Samaritan, and a devil; but was even accursed by the law; becoming the surety of his people, he was made under the law, stood in their legal place and stead and having the sins of them all imputed to him, and answerable for them, the law finding them on him, charges him with them, and curses him for them; yea, he was treated as such by the justice of God, even by his Father, who spared him not, awoke the sword of justice against him, and gave him up into his hands; delivered him up to death, even the accursed death of the cross, whereby it appeared that he was made a curse: "made", by the will, counsel, and determination of God, and not without his own will and free consent; for he freely laid down his life, and gave himself, and made his soul an offering for sin

John Bengel Commentary

Ὑπὲρ, for, instead of, is also used here with the utmost propriety; for Christ became the curse, which we were, in our stead, that we might cease to be a curse
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Clearly to be understood the atonement is a substitution. Matthew 20:28, ". . . to give his life{soul} a ransom for{instead of} many. . . ."

Indeed, this is beyond any doubt conclusive Scriptual evidence of the Death of Jesus Christ as a Substitution. There is no way around the meaning of the Greek preposition used here!
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LOL - what an attack on word meaning. Here "in ones stead" (i.e. in place of) is claimed to mean "not for someone." I kid you not. The Greek hyper (G5228) means (when location is in view) above or over. When used in reference to action, it is used as someone bending over someone rendering aid. Thus "for" in the phrase "he cared for him."

Now the Greek "anti" (G473) does have within its range of meanings "instead of." But it also can mean "for" as in for the purpose of something. Hence, Christ died as a ransom "for" many, meaning for the purpose of ransoming many. (Matthew 20:28)
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
LOL - what an attack on word meaning. Here "in ones stead" (i.e. in place of) is claimed to mean "not for someone." I kid you not. The Greek hyper (G5228) means (when location is in view) above or over. When used in reference to action, it is used as someone bending over someone rendering aid. Thus "for" in the phrase "he cared for him."

Now the Greek "anti" (G473) does have within its range of meanings "instead of." But it also can mean "for" as in for the purpose of something. Hence, Christ died as a ransom "for" many, meaning for the purpose of ransoming many. (Matthew 20:28)

again showing you lack of understanding of Greek grammar! :rolleyes:
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
This is all they have - the use of the logical fallacy of against the person argumentation. Shows their understanding is that they are wrong...

what I have seen from your responses, is that for the most time, you don't know what you are on about, and try to convince yourself that you somehow know more than those who have spent 30-40 years, teaching and writing on Greek grammar! This is just plain silly!

Philemon 13's use of ὑπέρ will show that you are wrong in your understanding

Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead (ὑπέρ) he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel, KJV

Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered to me in the bands of the gospel, Douay-Rheims

Whom I woulde haue reteined with mee, that in thy steade he might haue ministred vnto me in the bondes of the Gospel, Geneva Bible

whom I wolde fayne have retayned with me that in thy stede he myght have ministred vnto me in ye bondes of the gospell, Tyndale

Whom I woulde haue retayned with me, that in thy steade he myght haue ministred vnto me in the bondes of the Gospell, Bishops Bible

Whom I would have retained with me, that in your stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel, KJV 2000

I would like to keep him here with me, where he could take your place in helping me while I am here in prison for preaching the good news, CEV

I wanted to keep him here with me. Then he could have served me in your place while I am in prison for spreading the Good News, GWT

wanted to keep him with me so that he could serve me in your place during my imprisonment for the gospel, ISV

I wanted to keep him so that he could serve me in your place during my imprisonment for the sake of the gospel, NET

I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel, NIV

I wanted to keep him with me, so that in my imprisonment for the gospel he might serve me in your place, CSB

so you think that YOU know more than these Versions, and the Greek authorities, like A T Robertson, Kenneth Wuest, Daniel Wallace??? You are KIDDING yourself! :eek::rolleyes::D
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
LOL, what sheer absurdity. Did I say G5228 meant "in ones stead?" Yes.

The level of ignorance on display in post #8 is really quite funny. Here is person who seems unable to comprehend English claiming others have it wrong.

Here once again is what I said:
LOL - what an attack on word meaning. Here "in ones stead" (i.e. in place of) is claimed to mean "not for someone." I kid you not. The Greek hyper (G5228) means (when location is in view) above or over. When used in reference to action, it is used as someone bending over someone rendering aid. Thus "for" in the phrase "he cared for him."

Now the Greek "anti" (G473) does have within its range of meanings "instead of." But it also can mean "for" as in for the purpose of something. Hence, Christ died as a ransom "for" many, meaning for the purpose of ransoming many. (Matthew 20:28)
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I am not certain that I am all that much in agreement with what your OP and subsequent post represented as to the thinking of those you cited. But that is another thread.

What I did notice is that in the first post you admit that:
1) the use of "for" in 1 Corithians 5:21 and Galatians 3:13 is not the same word as that used in Matthew and Mark references.
2) that the BAGD considers a "substitutionary sense on occasion."

What this boils down to is that some, at some times, may, upon their own whim, choose to use inference rather then the Scripture words the God of all Heaven and Earth dictated to be used.

I do not like the word "substitution." It is not used in the NT in relation to the atonement sacrifice, nor in the OT.

As I posted in another place, Christ did not substitute and is not a substitute. He is the redeemer and He redeems, He did not substitute my blood for His or His for mine. He did not substitute His life for mine. He did not substitute His death for mine, He did not substitute His Spirit for mine. Rather, He satisfied the requirements of the declarations of the law (Romans 3) and as the atoning sacrifice (Romans 3, 1 John 2 and 4) He enter the temple/tabernacle of heaven that is not made with hands and not part of this creation, by His own blood secured eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9, 10)

Like I said, I am still needing to work through your references and the thinking you cited concerning substitution. And that may be for another thread. We will see. I mentioned in another thread that I and my peers would "chat" about these things, and I held a much firmer stand then they, for the "inference" became doctrinal.

I do not accept inference becoming doctrine. It must be portrayed and by statement for doctrine to be doctrine. And statements are not flexible nor subject to the press of inference.


........
What also strikes me as peculiar is that as one who has posted concerning Calvinistic thinking, why do you embrace reformed thinking of PSA?

That seems as a bit of a disconnect.

As one who is not Calvinist, yet hold to a number of the points, sort of like Calvin would probably have done, I was somewhat amused.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I am not certain that I am all that much in agreement with what your OP and subsequent post represented as to the thinking of those you cited. But that is another thread.

What I did notice is that in the first post you admit that:
1) the use of "for" in 1 Corithians 5:21 and Galatians 3:13 is not the same word as that used in Matthew and Mark references.
2) that the BAGD considers a "substitutionary sense on occasion."

What this boils down to is that some, at some times, may, upon their own whim, choose to use inference rather then the Scripture words the God of all Heaven and Earth dictated to be used.

I do not like the word "substitution." It is not used in the NT in relation to the atonement sacrifice, nor in the OT.

As I posted in another place, Christ did not substitute and is not a substitute. He is the redeemer and He redeems, He did not substitute my blood for His or His for mine. He did not substitute His life for mine. He did not substitute His death for mine, He did not substitute His Spirit for mine. Rather, He satisfied the requirements of the declarations of the law (Romans 3) and as the atoning sacrifice (Romans 3, 1 John 2 and 4) He enter the temple/tabernacle of heaven that is not made with hands and not part of this creation, by His own blood secured eternal redemption. (Hebrews 9, 10)

Like I said, I am still needing to work through your references and the thinking you cited concerning substitution. And that may be for another thread. We will see. I mentioned in another thread that I and my peers would "chat" about these things, and I held a much firmer stand then they, for the "inference" became doctrinal.

I do not accept inference becoming doctrine. It must be portrayed and by statement for doctrine to be doctrine. And statements are not flexible nor subject to the press of inference.


........
What also strikes me as peculiar is that as one who has posted concerning Calvinistic thinking, why do you embrace reformed thinking of PSA?

That seems as a bit of a disconnect.

As one who is not Calvinist, yet hold to a number of the points, sort of like Calvin would probably have done, I was somewhat amused.

thanks for taking the time to respond in so much detail.

The Greek preposition ὑπέρ which is used in places like Galatians 3:13; 2 Cor. 5:21, can, as I have shown from the above quoted Greek authorities, be also used for "instead of", as in "substitution". The other one is ἀντί, which is used in the passages in Matthew and Mark. This preposition does not, as some assume, only have the meaning "instead of", and it is also used for "against", and in "anti-Christ", which is both, "against and instead" of Jesus Christ. It is clear from the use of ὑπέρ in Philemon 13, that it is used as "instead of". As also seen from the Greek grammars quoted, both these prepositions are interchangeable. The two uses of ἀντί in Matthew and Mark, which is used for the Death of Jesus Christ, is clear that "substitution", is meant.

You ask why I have quoted Calvinist theologians. Firstly, because what they say on PSA is what I consider to be Biblical. And, secondly, there are a few on here who are Reformed/Calvinists.
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
thanks for taking the time to respond in so much detail.

The Greek preposition ὑπέρ which is used in places like Galatians 3:13; 2 Cor. 5:21, can, as I have shown from the above quoted Greek authorities, be also used for "instead of", as in "substitution". The other one is ἀντί, which is used in the passages in Matthew and Mark. This preposition does not, as some assume, only have the meaning "instead of", and it is also used for "against", and in "anti-Christ", which is both, "against and instead" of Jesus Christ. It is clear from the use of ὑπέρ in Philemon 13, that it is used as "instead of". As also seen from the Greek grammars quoted, both these prepositions are interchangeable. The two uses of ἀντί in Matthew and Mark, which is used for the Death of Jesus Christ, is clear that "substitution", is meant.

You ask why I have quoted Calvinist theologians. Firstly, because what they say on PSA is what I consider to be Biblical. And, secondly, there are a few on here who are Reformed/Calvinists.
Ok,

I don't particularly agree with your thinking concerning "hyper" and "peri" but then I also am not at all comfortable with presentations of "substitution."
For example: Philemon 13, is using Hyper because it is not "instead of" but as "behalf" or "stead" - not "instead"
"Instead" means that one is replacing the other as in substituting peaches for apples in a pie.
"Stead" means that one is standing in to help or for concern.

Therefore, Philemon nor Onesimus did not minister instead of Paul, but ministered to Paul. To change the word "hyper" is to change the exact meaning of the Scriptures.
This is something that you and I both argue for, against those who would diminish the exactness of the Scriptures.

One other example:
In Galatians 3:13, it is also problematic, for there are two "for" words with two separate meanings.
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for (hyper - on our behalf to extend benefit) us. For (hoti - because, as...) it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”​

Again, Christ did not replace us, rather on our behalf and for our benefit became a curse for us.

Again, the exactness of the word cannot be replaced.

Hope this helps in your understanding of where I am coming from.

I do enjoy our interaction, for I am so far removed (decades) from the classroom, and as my mind is dimming, your work allows me challenge.

We may exasperate and even teasingly mock each other, but you I consider a brother in Christ, and I hope in a small way to encourage and edify.

BTW, I don't have Greek fonts anymore, so I use the transliteration - usually I spell it correctly - I hope.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Ok,

I don't particularly agree with your thinking concerning "hyper" and "peri" but then I also am not at all comfortable with presentations of "substitution."
For example: Philemon 13, is using Hyper because it is not "instead of" but as "behalf" or "stead" - not "instead"
"Instead" means that one is replacing the other as in substituting peaches for apples in a pie.
"Stead" means that one is standing in to help or for concern.

Therefore, Philemon nor Onesimus did not minister instead of Paul, but ministered to Paul. To change the word "hyper" is to change the exact meaning of the Scriptures.
This is something that you and I both argue for, against those who would diminish the exactness of the Scriptures.

One other example:
In Galatians 3:13, it is also problematic, for there are two "for" words with two separate meanings.
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for (hyper - on our behalf to extend benefit) us. For (hoti - because, as...) it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”​

Again, Christ did not replace us, rather on our behalf and for our benefit became a curse for us.

Again, the exactness of the word cannot be replaced.

Hope this helps in your understanding of where I am coming from.

I do enjoy our interaction, for I am so far removed (decades) from the classroom, and as my mind is dimming, your work allows me challenge.

We may exasperate and even teasingly mock each other, but you I consider a brother in Christ, and I hope in a small way to encourage and edify.

BTW, I don't have Greek fonts anymore, so I use the transliteration - usually I spell it correctly - I hope.

very simply put. Whatever punishment that is due to me, for my sins, was taken by Jesus Christ on the Cross; and His Righteousness was imputed to me. So, Jesus died on the Cross, "instead of " me, and bore my sins on His own Body, so that I could be freed from my own sins.

I cannot see any other way, that we can really understand the Death that Jesus died
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Ok,

I don't particularly agree with your thinking concerning "hyper" and "peri" but then I also am not at all comfortable with presentations of "substitution."
For example: Philemon 13, is using Hyper because it is not "instead of" but as "behalf" or "stead" - not "instead"
"Instead" means that one is replacing the other as in substituting peaches for apples in a pie.
"Stead" means that one is standing in to help or for concern.

Therefore, Philemon nor Onesimus did not minister instead of Paul, but ministered to Paul. To change the word "hyper" is to change the exact meaning of the Scriptures.
This is something that you and I both argue for, against those who would diminish the exactness of the Scriptures.

One other example:
In Galatians 3:13, it is also problematic, for there are two "for" words with two separate meanings.
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for (hyper - on our behalf to extend benefit) us. For (hoti - because, as...) it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”​

Again, Christ did not replace us, rather on our behalf and for our benefit became a curse for us.

Again, the exactness of the word cannot be replaced.

Hope this helps in your understanding of where I am coming from.

I do enjoy our interaction, for I am so far removed (decades) from the classroom, and as my mind is dimming, your work allows me challenge.

We may exasperate and even teasingly mock each other, but you I consider a brother in Christ, and I hope in a small way to encourage and edify.

BTW, I don't have Greek fonts anymore, so I use the transliteration - usually I spell it correctly - I hope.

what do you make of the 2 verses from the Gospels?

Matthew 20:28 and Mark 10:45

“even as the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom (λύτρον, price of release, the price for redeeming, ransom, sum paid for redemption of a pledge, atonement) for (ἀντί) many.”

Surely this is SUBSTITUTION?
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
very simply put. Whatever punishment that is due to me, for my sins, was taken by Jesus Christ on the Cross; and His Righteousness was imputed to me. So, Jesus died on the Cross, "instead of " me, and bore my sins on His own Body, so that I could be freed from my own sins.

I cannot see any other way, that we can really understand the Death that Jesus died
Jesus died as any other person, EXCEPT (added emphasis) that He determined the place, time and moment of His physical body no longer being viable.

No human from Adam other than Christ had such unless they determined by external forces (suicide).

Christ didn't die "instead" of you; rather, He died in your stead (for your profit, benefit, ...).

SavedByGrace, will you not die? At some time in the future does the Scriptures stated that it is appointed for you to die? If not, and the Lord calls, we will be "changed" from this body into that of His making.

So, logically speaking, if Christ died "instead of me" then my body would be like like the Adam prior to the fall and not cease viability. But I still sin, and those wages come due.

What punishment was "due" in the OT atonement Sacrifice that had to be shown as enduring some sort of "wrath" from God? There is no picture presented.

The Scriptures are totally silent concerning God's wrath upon the Son, yet is extremely specific when enumerating the attributes of those to whom the wrath is most certainly appointed. Christ fits none of those attributes, therefore, wrath cannot be appointed to Him.

He was the bearer of sin, yet the Scriptures state He remained sinless, innocent, unpolluted, un-spotted by the world. He was the pure, righteous, just, lamb of God.

As a result of Him, He then can as He did even prior to the cross, forgive sin, raise the dead, pronounce "neither do I condemn thee" to any in whom He chooses. He did not have to be your substitute, for He was the satisfactory offering to the Father. No wrath upon you, nor upon Him. Is not God Just and the one who also Justifies? Where is the need for wrath if He is in charge? This is philosophy, yet you can perceive that I also included Scriptures.

They bubble out even in everyday speech.

Keep searching the Scripture. Do not take my thinking on just my say so, for that is foolish. Many have done such to the reformer's statements because they esteem them, or have not put forth the effort to think through the Scripture.

I know you will grow in knowledge, for in my spirit I know my Father has not given you such gifts as you have and then left out a lack of wisdom.

All I desire is that you keep searching the Scripture. Continually be "in the Spirit" that the lusts of the flesh do not hinder you. That you pray without ceasing for all, even those who you might not like. And remember, God is the rewards those who diligently seek Him.
 
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