On whose authority did Luther remove the Apocrypha?

A question which is self-evident in meaning - any answers?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

All of these postdate Luther's Reformation, they follow rather than support his ruling and do not address my question. I would like to know on what basis and with what authority Luther took it upon himself to delete those books...

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Yes, but the Jews decided that AFTER the Church began. If your appeal for the exclusion of the Apocrypha is to the work of the rabbis under Gamaliel II at Jamnia/ Yavneh from c90AD onwards (as I suspect it is) then I think that the point needs to be made that the OT in use by Jesus, His disciples and the Early Church in so far as they understood Greek would almost certainly have been the LXX, which contains the Apocrypha; Jamnia made the decision to revert to the Hebrew text ( sans Apocrypha) as a way of distancing themselves theologically from the Early Church ( and in particular the Jewish-Christian minim or sectaries) and 'go native' by reverting to Hebrew. Thus the rejection of the Apocrypha by the post-Temple Judaism has to be seen as a move by Judaism away from Christianity. Surely that gives strength to the argument that the Apocrypha was used by the Church - and still should....? It was in the Church Bibles for over 1000 years - the RCC didn't add it in, Luther removed it - should he have done and who was he to have done it?


Yours in Christ

Matt

 

That's the question I'm asking, yes, I'm trying to establish whether it has or not. That's the point of this thread...

So who actually did exclude it if not Luther?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

I don't read them at present and I certainly don't have any 'irrational reverence' with them. My aim is to establish whether they are part of the Canon or not, and that is why I started this thread.

Are you not falling into the same trap as Luther when you state you aren't 'God-breathed': on whose authority are you saying this?

RSR - thanks for the input, but I have to confess this makes me none the wiser! My understanding has always been that the books were included in the Vulgate and were there without serious question for over 1000 years prior to the Reformation until the Reformers started questioning them as they contained doctrines with which they disagreed (prayers to and for the dead etc). Well, I guess we'd all like to do a Marcion and remove the bits we don't like; my preference would be to ditch Leviticus and all the genealogies in I Chronicles, because they're rather turgid. But this is sacred Scripture we're talking about and we are not free to pick-and-choose what we say in our infinite wisdom that God inspired - and neither were the Reformers, I submit...

Ellis, are you referring eg to the Book of Enoch, quoted in Jude ?

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Sorry for double post, but what do people make of the references to Apocryphal verses in the NT?


Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.

1 Cor. 2:16 - Paul's question, "who has known the mind of the Lord?" references Wisdom 9:13.

1 Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26 - warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30.

1 Cor. 8:5-6 - Paul acknowledging many "gods" but one Lord follows Wis. 13:3.

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul's description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to Wisdom 19:7.

1 Cor. 10:20 - what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to Baruch 4:7.

1 Cor. 15:29 - if no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows 2 Macc. 12:43-45.

Eph. 1:17 - Paul's prayer for a "spirit of wisdom" follows the prayer for the spirit of wisdom in Wisdom 7:7.

Eph. 6:14 - Paul describing the breastplate of righteousness is the same as Wis. 5:18. See also Isaiah 59:17 and 1Thess. 5:8.

Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.

1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul's description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.

2 Tim. 4:8 - Paul's description of a crown of righteousness is similar to Wisdom 5:16.

Heb. 4:12 - Paul's description of God's word as a sword is similar to Wisdom 18:15.

Heb. 11:5 - Enoch being taken up is also referenced in Wis 4:10 and Sir 44:16. See also 2 Kings 2:1-13 & Sir 48:9 regarding Elijah.

Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 6:18, 7:1-42.

Heb. 12:12 - the description "drooping hands" and "weak knees" comes from Sirach 25:23.

James 1:19 - let every man be quick to hear and slow to respond follows Sirach 5:11.

James 2:23 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness follows 1 Macc. 2:52 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

James 3:13 - James' instruction to perform works in meekness follows Sirach 3:17.

James 5:3 - describing silver which rusts and laying up treasure follows Sirach 29:10-11.

James 5:6 - condemning and killing the "righteous man" follows Wisdom 2:10-20.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter teaches about testing faith by purgatorial fire as described in Wisdom 3:5-6 and Sirach 2:5.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds.

2 Peter 2:7 - God's rescue of a righteous man (Lot) is also described in Wisdom 10:6.

Rev. 1:18; Matt. 16:18 - power of life over death and gates of Hades follows Wis. 16:13.

Rev. 2:12 - reference to the two-edged sword is similar to the description of God's Word in Wisdom 18:16.

Rev. 5:7 - God is described as seated on His throne, and this is the same description used in Sirach 1:8.

Rev. 8:3-4 - prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows Tobit 12:12,15.

Rev. 8:7 - raining of hail and fire to the earth follows Wisdom 16:22 and Sirach 39:29.

Rev. 9:3 - raining of locusts on the earth follows Wisdom 16:9.

Rev. 11:19 - the vision of the ark of the covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in 2 Macc. 2:7.

Rev. 17:14 - description of God as King of kings follows 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 19:1 - the cry "Hallelujah" at the coming of the new Jerusalem follows Tobit 13:18.

Rev. 19:11 - the description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows 2 Macc. 3:25; 11:8.

Rev. 19:16 - description of our Lord as King of kings is taken from 2 Macc. 13:4.

I think a major factor in the dropping of the Apocryphal writings was the recognition by many Reformers that dropping them dealt neatly with the Maccabbean teaching concerning prayers for the departed which has been and is a consistent practice of the Jewish people but which naughty Rome also did ... and, therefore, was out.

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Er...that's why I asked what people make of them; they are often cited by pro-Apocrypha apologists and I threw them out for discussion. Perhaps I should have said "supposed references to the Apocrypha in the NT" - but that would have disclosed a bias

Yours in Christ

Matt

 

Yes, the question is 'who'. Clearly not Marcion, as the Church very early on decided (Marcion's attempted exclusion of the OT was of course the action that precipitated the whole Church discussion of the Canon in the first place). The precedent of Marcion suggests to me that individuals are not empowered to add or delete entries to the Canon, but rather it should be done by representatives of the whole Church.

However, the plot thickens: it's not just a question of who is authorised to delete the Apocrypha/ deutero-canonicals (DCs) but who actually did that. My further research suggests that the answer's a little more complex than 'just Luther'. The 1611 KJV included the DCs. The 1629 version did not, but the 1630 did. For some 200 years, many Protestant bibles continued to contain the DCs. In 1825 after lobbying from Presbyterian and other Protestants, the British and Foreign Bible Society eliminated the DCs from KJV printing. It was not until 1880 that the American Bible Society voted remove the DCs from their KJV. The DCs were officially removed by the Anglican Church from their KJV printings by the Archbishop of Canterbury in 1885.

So, there seem to be more individuals and organisations involved than 'just Luther' (which IMO adds some weight to the 'authority' for the deletion) but the Protestant deletion of the DCs seems to have been progressive and in many cases quite recent (which lessens the authoritative weight IMO).

Yours in Christ

Matt