once saved always saved for baptists

Dear Dr. Bob,

I am greatful to be able to post on this site. I am not a baptist, though I grew up in a Southern baptist enviornment. I remember allot of the teaching.

If you would please do me the favor of answering some of the question I have regarding this site and your doctrine, I would be very greatful.

Your organization Has hosted a website that includes anyone to post on it with the following exception:

1 you must be righteous (post clean material)

2 you can't post on "Baptist Only" forums

As well as some others.

One of my questions is this: If you are a Baptist that is taught the same doctrine all over the world and then you have a question that you only can get the opinion of other Baptist, how will you learn something new or be corrected?
My thought is this: I share my faith with people of different religeons and even though I may not agree with their doctrine completely, I may walk away with some biblical insight that I would not or did not get from my associates of my faith.

How do you expect to grow but not exposed your faith to a challenge. Its easy to seem right when everyone is telling you what you want to hear (is that really a "Debate"?), but how will you know if you have true faith. Or better yet if your faith in a particular area is biblically correct? You can only trust yourself, but limit the influence that God has around you.

I looked at a subject on the baptist only forum, but out of repect I didn't post my views, and the majority of the baptist agreed on the subject that another baptist started.

The subject was "ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED". There were allot of "Opinions", but I notice certain scriptures were not shared that could have given this person a more biblical direction of faith. Not just a faith based on association.

I don't hide my people from other beliefs because if I am correct in my views then it doesn't matter what anyone else says because I can prove through scriptures (within context) our faith.

So what are you afraid of?

I will start a descussion "Once Saved Always Saved" and you and other Baptist are invited to share your beliefs(based on scriptures). You Might just learn something new, if your open

[ July 23, 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: C.S. Murphy ]

 

The fact is that on the Baptist only Forum, no other insights are allowed by outside users. It's obviously your choice, I'm just saying the issues you descuss privately/publically can benefit from insights of non-baptist believers.

What is the big deal anyway

If you were teaching a person who believes that God exist and that the bible is his word, and that your doctrine is based on it, then you would gladly welcome questions/insights into a discussion. Why not now?

Tell ya what,
don't worry about it. I'm okay with using the "Open Forum" to talk to anyone willing reguarding my faith. Hopefully we all will learn something Sorry if I offended anyone.

Lets continue with this topic here then.

Once a person is forgiven of their sins through Christ (However you believe that to be) Can they lose thier Salvation through unrepented sin?
Please provide scriptures with your responses

 

John 3:19 "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed."

(Everyone (no exceptions) who DOES EVIL HATES THE LIGHT....)

Jason, there is more to the third chapter of John than just vs 16.

Faith was never a one time deal. You can loose faith. Faith without deeds is dead (James 2
You can believe in Jesus and stop following him.

Hebrews 10:25-28 Speaks to Christians that "Deliberatly" keeps sinning.

Do those scriptures mean anything to you?

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."

What does born of "Water AND Spirit" mean. Please note that the scripture does not state Water THEN Spirit!

 

Don,

Good point about "Will not come into the light"
So we agree that those who do believe comes into the light So what of those who leave the light. Its not until you Dead (in the flesh) that eternity can take place correct?

Secondly, Is not Hebrews written to Christians?
If so, then doesn't he address Christians about their knowledge of the truth. Were THEY not being reminded that what they learned, being true, they consistantly sinned against God?
So Yes, their knowledge of the Truth is what condemns them because they don't live by it.
So biblically recorded these Christian loss their salvation through repeated sin, correct?

We know the early church had the Apostles and that they were taught correctly regarding salvation. That's not an issue. Its the Churches today the has the "Knowledge of Truth" issue.
So we can be assured that Whatever was taught then to them and that very thing they "Willingly" sinned against cause THEM to Have no more sacrifice of Jesus in GODs GRACE.

EVER READ ROMANS chapter 1 & 2? Paul is talking to christians about them living like unbelievers and showing contempt for GOds mercy, patients, grace. And that GOD will judge all who lives wickedly, HE SHOWS NO FAVORTISM!
READ IT! Let me know what you think. Don't forget to answer my questions above.

Thanks

[ July 24, 2003, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Tazman ]

 

Brian,

I would love to believe that no matter if I turn my back on God and not live righteous that I will still enter eternal life, but the fact of matter is that what you are proposing contradicts all the warning given by Jesus and his Apostles. I would loved to not have to respond in repentance to the Holy Spirit, but I must because of my Love for God, and His commands

You never Answered my question "Were these Christians being warned in Hebrews 10 about there sin causing them to become enemies of God?

Secondly I believe that you should quote the whole scripture you intend on making your point with.

John 4:13 "Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

Jesus is not saying that you are saved no matter what you do. Turning Away from Him is not the Subject he's addressing Here. Seeking Him IS the Subject!
Do you look a dictionary under "Saved" if your looking to know the exact meaning of "Lost"
No, you do both. You don't take one definition an assume what the other means. I would agree with your logic if the bible didn't say anything about "Falling Away" "Turning From God" "Blot out your name from Book of Life(Jesus Rev 3:5b)", "Hebrews 6:4-14". AND more and more.

Isn't the "Thirsty" person desire for God the point?
What about the SECOND part of what Jesus Said?
"Indeed, the water I give him WILL (Future) Become (Not "IS" or "Has Become") in him a spring of water WELLING (Growth - not arrival) up to ETERNAL LIFE (The Goal)

There is a goal of us staying faithful (Persevering), beyond the point of "A GREATER Heavenly GIFT", but Just to stay in love with God in deed and faith!

 

Where do you find a verse that says people leave the light? It certainly wasn't John 3:19.

If I write a letter to a church or group of people--let's say, for example, the church you attend--am I guaranteed that everyone there is saved? Or is it because I judge not according to the appearance, but righteous judgment (John 7:24), using the fruits of the spirit vs. the works of the flesh (Galatians 5) that I can tell the letter needs to be written, reminding people they need to get themselves right with God? Possibly even those that are indulging in the works of the flesh need to get saved? In which case, even though they claim the title "Christian," they fall under the category of "I knew you not"?

I've read it a lot, and I still believe the same way: Our works, our fruits, reflect our spiritual state, and those that choose to continue in sin even after having been shown the truth need to seriously ask themselves if they're truly saved.

If they can honestly answer yes, even though you and I both know the Bible says what they're doing is sin, who are you or I to judge their salvation? When the final judgment comes, and that individual is thrown into the lake of fire, we'll both weep and say, "We tried to tell them...." Or, conversely, we might both look surprised and say, "Well, I'll be...."

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Trying2Understand,

At what point did the prodigal son stop being his father's son? By the time he wallowed with the pigs? Before that? When? </font>[/QUOTE]Don,

We do agree that Hebrews, though broken up in chapter & Verses, still incorporate a complete letter?
If so, The letter as ALWAYS is addressed to the Church (Heb 6:11 We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain because you are slow to learn. 12In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God's word all over again."
The Hebrew writer never changes audiences, but really continues on the same subject plulling everything together.
These people were ALREADY TAUGHT THE BASICS OF FAITH. They were being reminded because of false teachings and worldly influence about Jesus!

John 3:19 Mentions entering the Light, I only asked the question of Leaving the Light!

Scripture don't conflict, but its our desires based on sentimentality that uses scripture incorrectly.

Secondly the Prodical Son Left, notice the Father didn't chase him, The Father stayed at Home! Why was it important for the Father to stay (this is silly, but its only to open you eyes)