Once saved, always saved

Howdy. Give this a try.

John 6
36
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38
For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

 

So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. (Rom 8:1)

"Condemnation" is used exclusively in judicial settings as the opposite of justification. It refers to a verdict of guilty and the penalty that verdict demands. No sin a believer can commit-past, present, or future-can be held against him, since the penalty was paid by Christ and righteousness was imputed to the believer. And no sin will ever reverse this divine legal decision.

John 15:16 (ESV)16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

John 6:37 (ESV) All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

1 John 2:12 (ESV) I am writing to you, little children, because your sins are forgiven for his name's sake.

These should present a most convincing statement!

God bless!

 

There are numerous verses than can and will be given by others on this topic. But I want to call your thoughts as well to certain broad concepts of God:

The Love of God, The Power of God, The Immutability of God, The Work of Christ, The Sealing and Earnest (Guarantee) of the Holy Spirit.

These will have to worked out and understood in light of specific verses, chapters and books of the Bible (and are not a quick fix); but here is an example of what I am saying - God loved us while we were yet sinners (Rom. 5:8). In view of the fact that He is immutable (unchanging), He will continue to love us. God has the power to keep us saved (Jude 24). In view of the fact He is immutable, He will always have the power to keep us saved.

 

Hi dtw868s:
It's great that you and your girlfriend are having discussions about the Bible. Keep it up. The scriptures quoted already are very good. Just in case you would like a few more:

Matthew 18:12-14; John 5:24; John 10:27-30; John 17:11,12,15; Romans 8:35-39; Ephesians 1:5,13,14. Ephesians 4:30; Colossians 3:3-4; Hebrews 10:14; 1 John 5:4,11-13,20; Jude 1,24,25.

If you need more, let me know. Any of us will be happy to help you out.
Have a great evening (morning)
James2

[ November 29, 2001: Message edited by: JAMES2 ]

 

Eternal security is promised only to those who are truly born again by the Spirit of God by grace ALONE through faith ALONE in the blood of Christ ALONE.

Those who think they can lose salvation are probably not saved in the first place, because they don't understand the first point of Christianity. John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

If you don't HAVE everlasting life, you haven't believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, you haven't been saved yet.

John 10:27-30
Romans 8:28-39
Philippians 1:6
I Peter 1:5

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

Pasm145 3 said it all: I would like to add a little commentary to John 3:16 to help (I hope) Think REAL hard about what it actually says: For God so....that whosoever believeth shall have eternal life.

This says "shall" have, not "might have if they don't turn their back on me", not "this is conditional on the way they live the rest of their lives or how many times they go to church". There are other scriptures (probably some that were mentioned by Psalm 145 6 that indicate that we have eternal life upon believing on him. This is pretty clear that it is unconditional.

Now, let me make a REAL clear statement here not to be confused. Many people argue with this by saying "I knew an ole boy who went to church for five years, quit going and now chases women, etc." There is a GOOD chance in these cases that the person was NOT really saved in the first place. I think a lot of "so called" hypocrites may be actually non-Christians. This is the reason James was so specific that we will recognize people by their fruits.

This is the same quesiton as suicide. I hear people believe that if you commit suicide you are going to hell. Well, suicide is caused by "mental illness" of some sort whether the result of long term depression or something else. This would be a Catholic answer because that person does not have a chance to "confess their sins" that Jesus has already washed away (past, present and future) This probably belongs on another thread, but since I started it, I have to finish it due to the nature of the subject. THIS IS BY NO MEANS TO SAY that a Christian should commit suicide. I would hate to meet Jesus face to face after destroying his temple (which is your body). But, I once knew a Baptist preacher who I am certain was a Christian who eventually sound up killing himself after loosing his wife and kids in a wreck (or some other such tragedy). It is obvious this man needed help very badly, but I have no doubt Jesus took him in his arms and comforted him when he got to heaven.

The unpardonable sin is nothing more than blasphemy of the Holy Spirit which is accomplished by ignoring his callings when he convicts you to come to Jesus. If you refuse him enough, it grieves him and you eventually reach a point where the Holy Spirit has decided that it is useless to continue convicting a person longer and that person's heart becomes hardened to the point that nothing can get through. That person has committed the unpardonable sin.

So, back to the subject. There are no qualifications added to scriptures discussing salvation directly. You have eternal life and that means starting the minute you turn over your life to the Lord that eternity starts RIGHT THEN. You physical body will still have to die, but it is the result of Adam's sin in the garden. But, the spirit will live forever. The lost person--in a way has eternal life, but it is actually "eternal death and damnation" with so much suffering that it cannot be considered eternal "life".

I'll quit preaching now (and I'm not even a preacher.)

I hope this helps some.
God Bless You.

 

Here are some verses that helped me:

Heb. 10:1-18 (pay attention to "purged" and "conscience of sins"), cross reference it with similar verses in Hebrews 9.


Rom 4:1-8 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Notice especially v8 - "will not impute sin." God doesn't even see a saved man as a sinner any more; He's in Christ Jesus, in whom is no sin.

When I was first saved, people used verses like John 10:27-29 to try to convince me. That was great, but what really settled me were the verses from Heb 10 and Romans 4. The issue of being lost pertained to SIN. And when I realized that ALL my sins are forgiven forever, and that sin is no longer imputed to me, a light came on.

If you want a little more help, read Romans 6 thoroughly. Dead men don't sin, and positionally, we're dead to sin and alive to God. Jesus died to sin once, and we can only die to sin once. When Jesus was raised from the dead, He could never die again. And when we're resurrected from death unto life in and by Christ, we can no longer die to God. Yes, the practical man can still sin, but that does not affect our position in Christ, any more than doing good works affected our position before salvation. And before the thought of "license to sin" comes to mind, read Romans 6:1-7 again. If we KNOW our position on Christ, RECKON it to be so, YIELD to Christ, and OBEY God, our practical man can live up to our positional man.

Whew. Amen!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I would not be so quick to say that those who think they can lose their salvation are not saved. They are probably just as saved as you and I are! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would not be so quick to count them saved if they do not understand the Gospel of Christ which promises eternal life to whosoever repents of their sin and trusts Christ alone. I agree that maybe a new believer might not understand eternal security right away, but those who say they have been Christians for a long time, and will not listen to you when you try to explain that true Christians cannot lose salvation, are as lost as lost can be!

I grew up going to a Lutheran church, they teach a false gospel. They think a baby is born again through the "Sacrament of Baptism." When that child grows up and lives like the devil, they are forced to say, "They lost their salvation." It is a false gospel that must be confronted and refuted every chance we get. Those who think salvation can be lost don't understand how salvation is found!

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Eternal security is a past/present/future state of every one of God's elect. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the flawed systematic theology of Calvinism teaches this, but God's infallible, inerrant, authoritative Word says that all born again Christians before salvation "were dead in trespasses and sins" and "were by nature the children of wrath, even as others." (Ephesians 2:1-3)

 

I am convinced that salvation cannot be taken away from us. But is it possible for someone to "walk away" from God?

I realize that some may think of such a person as having never been saved in the first place, and it's really hard to say whether that's true.

I'm thinking of John 15:6 "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned."

It seems here that the man in question was "attached" to the vine, but later is removed because he no longer abides in Christ.

So, could such a man, having once been "attached to the vine", be cut off because he chooses to abandon Christ?

 

Yes.

 

*Adam sticks his hard helmet on*

I too have to disagree with psalm on this one. Our intellectual will to have *correct theology* on the once saved always saved position hardly keeps us from being saved. Besides that it isn't up to us to judge in the first place. Indeed they may be confused (as we are on some points, none of us have perfect theology), but that doen't keep them from having faith in Jesus Christ.

UNP,
Adam

 

Let's use an illustration. (Spurgeon said illustrations are the windows which shed light on a sermon. ) Let's suppose you decide to go to Hawaii on a small boat. As you sail along, a storm comes up and your small boat is swamped and you are in the water about to drown. I come along in my cruise ship ( ) and throw you a life line and haul you aboard. I give you dry clothes, good food, and nice stateroom, and we talk and fellowship most of the way to Hawaii. But, about 200 miles from Hawaii you do or say something that irritates me so much that I grab you and throw you over board and you drown.

Now the question. Did I save you?

Well, if Christ does not save us "to the uttermost" (Hebrews 7:25), all the way to Hawaii, uh, I mean all the way to Heaven, then He is not a Saviour, but a liar! I don't think so!

 

"Now the question. Did I save you?"

Interesting analogy. But it depends on what you're being saved from, doesn't it? Ultimately, the guy getting tossed overboard is not saved. Sure, he was saved from the earlier threat, but not from the later.

Aren't Christians saved from an eternity of separation from God? Doesn't the salvation refer to a change in the final destination of each person?

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Glory Bound:
But is it possible for someone to "walk away" from God? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure. But it doesn't affect his position with God. Note what I posted above... God does not impute sin to us any more. What brought the need for salvation in the first place? Sin. Since we are made the righteousness of God in Christ, He doesn't see us as sinners. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Col 3)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>So, could such a man, having once been "attached to the vine", be cut off because he chooses to abandon Christ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nay. Cut off in this life? Sure. Look at Saul - a good example of a Christian's early death. Even better - look at Moses. Look at Annanias and Saphira. Saved? Sure. Premature death because of sin.

Your works didn't save you and your works cannot condemn you.

--B C

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brian Collins:



Your works didn't save you and your works cannot condemn you.

--B C<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point, and you're absolutely right.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.


Our "soul" is sealed against sin the day we are saved, and it can never be lost.

Can we turn away from God, absolutely, but not from "salvation".

The day God saved you he knew exactly what you were going to do for the rest of your life, but he saved anyway.

Offending the law in one point, make you guilty of all.

People think their "daily sins" aren't as bad as "murder, rape, robbery, but one sin puts you in the category of "sinner".

Any "righteousness" by our efforts are as "filty rags" (Isa 64:6) compared to God's.

However many "Christians" like to brag about "THEIR" righteosuness.

 

Look at every salvation by grace verse:

For example:

John 3:16

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever should believeth on him should have everlasting life.

Think about it. He doesn't say: "might have everlasting life, if he doesn't backside", "she might have everlasting life as long as she doesn't commit "X" number of sins in her life.". etc. Everlasting life is present tense. Once the grace of Jesus Christ has been accepted, then we immediately begin our everlasting life--even though our bodies will die, our soul is saved----forever, and unconditionally!

 

Why does Cassidy always get to be the cruise ship captain?

I believe the elect are secure in salvation and cannot lose it. Jn 6:39 is a good verse, which says,

And this is the father's will that sent me, that of all which he hath given me, I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

It answers the objection that "God may not forsake us, but we may forsake him."