Once Saved Always Saved

[Eliyahu]

My salvation is irrevocable, eternal, everlasting.

Some people claim that their salvation is revocable, lose-able, disposable !

Both groups may be holding on totally different beliefs.

Mine sounds better than others'

Bible verses, John 6:37, 10:27-30, Romans 8:35, 1 Cor 5:5, Phil 1:6, Heb 10:14 support OSAS.

 

[BobRyan]

If something is found in Scripture (eternal life, everlasting life, etc.) it's not "man made".

Agreed.

What is "not in scripture" is "Saved while SEVERED from Christ".

What is not in scripture is "SAVED while FALLEN from Grace"

What is not in scripture is "SAVED though not standing by faith AND removed from Christ"

That is the part that is man-made tradition.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Simply put.......OSAS is.......

Jhn 4:10Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
.............

Jhn 4:14But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.


"The gift of God" is "eternal life" (Romans 6:23)

"who it is that saith to thee" is "Jesus Christ" (Romans 6:23)

"living water" is the "Holy Spirit" .......

Jhn 7:38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Jhn 7:39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

As we can see from this scripture, until Jesus was glorified the living water that causes a believer to NEVER thirst again and SHALL spring up into everlasting life had not yet been given. All believers from Adam until now had to wait until Jesus was glorified to receive the Holy Spirit regeneration and enter into heaven. For the OT saints they looked forward placing their faith in God's promised salvation to come. For us NT saints we look backwards to that salvation day when God brought forth His sacrafice and glorified His Son. We have the unique priviledge of living our earthly lives with the Holy Spirit indwelment of the new birth while we await our final glorification day in Christ.

There is much a new convert has to learn about their salvation and about their walk in Christ. However, assurance of salvation to those who have received the Holy Spirit is settled for the glory of Jesus Christ.

Since salvation is faith alone in Jesus Christ, the only possible way one could lose their salvation would be to stop having faith or stop believing. However, the bible teaches that "believing" is "knowing" (John 10) , and Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Therefore it is impossible to "stop believing" in that which you "know" to be absolute truth because you have been witnessed to that truth by God Himself. No one would "stop believing" something that they know for a fact is an absolute truth! I know from my own personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ that God is true and Jesus Christ is real. There is no way I can escape this truth for I have been reborn, recreated by God in Christ. I learned this from God Himself. I cannot ever "not believe"!

This settles the OSAS issue for me. Everything else in scripture must then fall under other categories such as "sanctification of the believer" "chastisment of the believer" "false believers" "judgment seat of Christ for believers". Many warnings are for assurance for the true believer. We all know that many who call themselves christians have not truly received the rebirth of Christ. They simply "say" they have faith like James teaches us. Paul many times scolded "believers" and told them to examine themselves to make sure they are in fact in Christ (2Cr 13:5) .

The bible teaches us about false brethern so there is no reason to reject the fact that not everyone who claims the name of Christ to us is born of God. And there is no reason to believe that what is written is not also warnings to those who may just be playing church. Scripture must be rightly divided and application must be in context. Now everybody claims this truth, but let the student delligently strive for correctness in doctrine and shake off any temptation to just conform for the sake of men rather than stand up for the sake of truth.

One side is wrong on this issue and both sides believe whole-heartedly they have rightly divided the truth. I have been to God on this with an open heart and I am satisfied that He has shown me this truth, however, it is not that I heard an audiable voice from God on it and if at my judgment I am found by God to be in error, I will gladly accept the losses it will have caused in me.


God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[webdog]

Good post, Steaver!

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of ones soul at death. Christ himself states in Matthew 24:13; cf. 25:31-46: He who endures to the end will be saved.

If Christ’s words aren’t good enough, I believe Paul’s take on the OSAS is much more explicit. See the kindness and severity of God: severity towards those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off (Romans 11:22; see also Hebrews 10:26-29, 2 Peter 2:20-21).

In addition Paul tells us in Philippians 2:12 that we must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
-

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of ones soul at death. Christ himself states in Matthew 24:13; cf. 25:31-46: He who endures to the end will be saved.

If Christ’s words aren’t good enough, I believe Paul’s take on the OSAS is much more explicit. See the kindness and severity of God: severity towards those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you provided you continue in His kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off (Romans 11:22; see also Hebrews 10:26-29, 2 Peter 2:20-21).

In addition Paul tells us in Philippians 2:12 that we must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

Our salvation is something that remains to be worked out.
-

Matthew 24 is dealing with tribulation period. Not to saints before the rapture. Matthew 24 is not dealing with our Salvation.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

Matthew 24 is dealing with tribulation period. Not to saints before the rapture. Matthew 24 is not dealing with our Salvation.

First you have to subscribe to the Rapture theory and if you subscribe to that theory you have to believe that people will be saved during the Tribulation.

I was a fundamental Baptist up until 5 years ago and even within the fundamentalist camp there was debate whether or not people who were “left behind” had a chance to be saved.

Evangelist Ron Comfort believes no one will be saved and our preacher the next Sunday after our revival said that he disagreed with Ron on his take.
-

 

[standingfirminChrist]

The Rapture is not a theory.

If you don't believe in the Rapture, you don't believe God's Word concerning the Rapture.

Do you just listen to your preacher and take what he says to be Gospel? I sure don't.

I open the Word of God and make sure what my preacher (or any other preacher for that matter) is speaking lines up with the Word of God.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

When the Philippian jailor asked Paul and Silas, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", they did not answer 'Endure to the end" did they?

They told him all he had to do was believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Enduring to the end is not for those between the Cross and the Rapture.

 

[Eliyahu]

In addition Paul tells us in Philippians 2:12 that we must work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..
-

Paul didn't mean that Philippian church people were not saved yet. They were saved already, and the Epistle was addressed to the Overseers( Elders), Deacons, and the Saints there. They were all saved and born again.

What Paul meant by "your own salvation " was the Sanctification, the Second Salvation.

In the Bible 3 kinds of Salvations are mentioned:

1) Beling Born Again, - Salvation of Spirit - Membership for the Kingdom of God.

2) Sanctification - Sanctification of Soul - Sanctifying the life of the Believer. This continues until the death of the believers. Phil 2:12 indicates this.

3) Bodily Salvation - Jesus second coming and Resurrection of Believers- Entering the New Millenium, entry into Kingdom of God.
Typical examples are Heb 9:28 and Re 12:10

Don't be confused among 3 stages.

Each stage materializes the Salvation more clearly.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Agnus_Dei: //Scripture teaches that one’s final salvation
depends on the state of ones soul at death.
Christ himself states in Matthew 24:13; cf. 25:31-46:
He who endures to the end will be saved.//

I disagree with Agnus_Dei; I agree with Jesus
(here in Matthew 24:13).

Scripture teaches that one's final salvation
depends of the state of Jesus'es soul
when He arose from the Dead.

Here is the logical error of those who
don't known what Matthew 24:13 means.

Mat 24:13 (Geneva Bible, 1587 Edition):
But he that endureth to the ende,
he shalbe saued.

We know this to be true, the Bible says it.

Implied though, by the non-OSAS-inclined folks,

He that endureth NOT to the end;
he shall NOT be saved.

This statement is NOT proved by Matthew 24:13.
If it is true it has to be proved somewhere else
in the Bible.

It is illogical to say that
He that endureth to the end;
shall be saved
means that
He that endureth NOT to the end;
shall NOT be saved.

Here is something way more logical
(God's word is always logical).

John 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
For God so loued ye world,
that he gaue his only begotten Sonne:
that whosoeuer beleeueth in him,
should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.

IMHO saved = 'have everlasting life'
By definition, 'everlasting life' NEVER
ENDS. So it is folly to say that you
measure everlasting life at the end,
that you measure salvation/no-salvation
at the end of 'everlasting life'.
'Everlasing life' is measured at the
BEGINNING - when you believe in Jesus.
'Everlasing life' is measured at the
BEGINNING - when you believe in Jesus.
(not cause you are such a great person,
but because God is a GREAT GOD!!!
This is what OSAS is all about:
salvation = everlasting life.

So I say this: OSAS is whatever
'everlasting life' means in John 3:16.

 

[Agnus_Dei]

The Rapture is not a theory.

If you don't believe in the Rapture, you don't believe God's Word concerning the Rapture.

Do you just listen to your preacher and take what he says to be Gospel? I sure don't.

I open the Word of God and make sure what my preacher (or any other preacher for that matter) is speaking lines up with the Word of God.

Come on SFIC, shouldn’t you rephrase that to say: I open the Word of God and make sure my preacher’s speaking lines us with my own preconceived interpretive paradigm.

Never is one able to approach the Bible without additional frameworks influencing the manner in which one interprets the Bible.

The question now becomes who or what speaks authoritatively in regards to faith or morals. Is it the scholar? Your local pastor? Is it James Dobson and his politically polarized contemporaries? Who determines whether five-point Calvinism or Arminianism is correct? Are they mutually exclusive?

So SFIC, on what authority do you determine what is accurate interpretation of Scripture?
-

 

[David Lamb]

The Rapture is not a theory.

If you don't believe in the Rapture, you don't believe God's Word concerning the Rapture.

Do you just listen to your preacher and take what he says to be Gospel? I sure don't.

I open the Word of God and make sure what my preacher (or any other preacher for that matter) is speaking lines up with the Word of God.

I've noticed that the word "Rapture" is used by different Christians to mean different things.

For some, it means simply that believers in Christ will be taken up from the surface of this earth to meet the Lord Jesus Christ as he returns to this world from heaven.

Others have the word meaning far more than that, including, for example, secrecy, and a period of seven years following the Rapture, when unbelievers will remain on earth before Christ comes with the saints to judge those unbelievers.

I fully agree with what you say about not just taking the word of a preacher (any preacher, however famous) to be true just because they say it, but rather checking what they say with the bible.

 

[Brother Bob]

What others call the "rapture" we call the resurrection. We believe we will meet the Lord in the air and to everly be with Him in Heaven.

Psalms 23:

1: The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3: He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5: Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Come on SFIC, shouldn’t you rephrase that to say: I open the Word of God and make sure my preacher’s speaking lines us with my own preconceived interpretive paradigm.

Never is one able to approach the Bible without additional frameworks influencing the manner in which one interprets the Bible.

The question now becomes who or what speaks authoritatively in regards to faith or morals. Is it the scholar? Your local pastor? Is it James Dobson and his politically polarized contemporaries? Who determines whether five-point Calvinism or Arminianism is correct? Are they mutually exclusive?

So SFIC, on what authority do you determine what is accurate interpretation of Scripture?
-

No, I don't mean that. Please don't tell me what I open the Scripture for as it is obvious you haven't a clue.

God's Spirit abides in me. It is His Spirit that tells me when a person speaks something that does not line up with the Word of God. He then directs me to that written Word to show me the truth.

It is God's authority, His Spirit that shows me the accurate interpretation.

2 Timothy 2:15 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 John 4:1 KJV 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[Iamodd4God]

It is illogical to say that
He that endureth to the end;
shall be saved
means that
He that endureth NOT to the end;
shall NOT be saved.

How is that illogical? Would it be illogical to say "He that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved means that he who does not call on the name of the Lord will NOT be saved."??? Doesn't sound illogical to me.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

[Agnus_Dei]

No, I don't mean that. Please don't tell me what I open the Scripture for as it is obvious you haven't a clue.

God's Spirit abides in me. It is His Spirit that tells me when a person speaks something that does not line up with the Word of God. He then directs me to that written Word to show me the truth.

It is God's authority, His Spirit that shows me the accurate interpretation.

Sorry, it doesn’t work that way and you’re side stepping the issue here. If you were right, then there’d be no division within Protestantism. All would be in agreement concerning faith and morals, but obviously with thousands of Protestant denominations that’s not the case.

How do you know you’re “rightly” dividing the word of truth and not the next?
-

 

[Iamodd4God]

Sorry, it doesn’t work that way and you’re side stepping the issue here. If you were right, then there’d be no division within Protestantism. All would be in agreement concerning faith and morals, but obviously with thousands of Protestant denominations that’s not the case.

How do you know you’re “rightly” dividing the word of truth and not the next?
-

Hi Agnus,

Recently the Pope made a declaration stating that the Catholic church is the ONLY true church. In many ways the denominations within the Protestant church makes the same statement, but they use milder words. For example; my uncle told me: "The Baptist follows the Bible the closest than any of the other denominations." He may as well have said: "The Baptist are the ONLY true Christians."

There is a division in the Protestant church, and according to Scripture that should not be the case...

1Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

...if there were no division in the Protestant church there wouldn't be different denominations. So the question would come down to who is right, and who is wrong? Of course they all will say they are all right, but that can't be the case, because if it was then they would not be divided one from another.

I'll stick with the Word of God.

In the name of Jesus Christ,

Ken

 

[charles_creech78]

Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby YE ARE SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION. Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. I beleive once saved always saved.

 

[BobRyan]

I've noticed that the word "Rapture" is used by different Christians to mean different things.

For some, it means simply that believers in Christ will be taken up from the surface of this earth to meet the Lord Jesus Christ as he returns to this world from heaven.

Others have the word meaning far more than that, including, for example, secrecy, and a period of seven years following the Rapture, when unbelievers will remain on earth before Christ comes with the saints to judge those unbelievers.

I fully agree with what you say about not just taking the word of a preacher .

The "Dead in Christ rise FIRST" 1Thess 4 and at that time are raptured to be with Christ in heaven "at His appearing" described in 1Thess4, Rev 19 etc.

In Rev 20 this is called "the FIRST resurrection".

The saints are taken up to meet the Lord in the air and are taken to heaven - for 1000 years.

This is the correct post-trib view of the rapture. Some others subscribe to the "high bounce" theory for a post-trib rapture where God simply bounces the saints high in the air so they can land softly with him as he lands

I never found that one in scripture.

How is this latest turn in the discussion related to OSAS?

in Christ,

Bob