Once Saved Always Saved

[BobRyan]

No one ignores the text you cite to prove OSAS in error. Every given expo of yours of a text you cite has been thoroughly refuted with a corrected exposition using tools such as "context" and "scripture interpreting scripture" and "Greek definitions" and "harmony" and etc. (knowing that one passage cannot teach against another, all must harmonize) .

Link please.

Evidence please.

facts please.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[charles_creech78]

Link please.

Evidence please.

facts please.

in Christ,

Bob

1jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one TOUCHETH him not.

 

[charles_creech78]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life

 

[charles_creech78]

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son; much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thy heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Rom 10:13 For whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[charles_creech78]

Ac 4:12 Neither is there SALVATION in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Ac 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this SALVATION sent. Ac 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for SALVATION unto the ends of the earth. Ac 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the SALVATION of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

 

[charles_creech78]

Ro 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto SALVATION to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Ro 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto SALVATION. 2co 6:1 We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain. 2co 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your SALVATION: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

 

[BobRyan]

A good example of why OSAS does not hold up to the test of scripture.

Rom 11
18do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith[/b]. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.

22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness[/b]; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And [b]they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.


Severed FROM Christ and Fallen from grace

Gal 5
4 [b]You have been severed from Christ[/b], you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness.
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?

 

[BobRyan]

I have to admit MMAN makes an excellent point there.

Best argument – to date: (Against “no-perseverance” group of OSAS)

MMAN –

II Pet 2:20-22, "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1034131&postcount=9



Problem for OSAS - HOW can it be BETTER to burn forever in hell than to HAVE KNOWN Christ and then turned away only to spend eternity with Christ?

Steaver your "solution" was in the form of "I am ok with that" -- as if that solves something for the OSAS group.

Kind of curious.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 18

32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.

34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

Clearly – “forgiveness revoked” with FULL payment made now – by the slave!

35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

when people cling to the false doctrine of OSAS they do so not because of the content in this Matt 18 text - but rather in spite of it.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 18 - "Forgiveness revoked"
John 15 "Severed from Christ and burned in the fire"
Gal 5 "Severed from Christ - fallen from Grace"
Rom 11 "Removed from Christ due to unbelief"
2Peter 2:20 "Worse than if they had never known" Christ the way of righteousness, worse than if they had never ESCAPED the defilements of the world

These statements all speak to the same OSAS-debunking warning in scripture for the saints.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[steaver]

Originally Posted by BobRyan
Best argument – to date: (Against “no-perseverance” group of OSAS)

MMAN –

II Pet 2:20-22, "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

Verse 20 begins with an if which must not be overlooked. Peter does not say that these false teachers have escaped from the pollutions of the world. The main verb is overcome (Gr hetaomai) which is in the Greek present tense, implying that they are now being overcome or conquered by the terrible sins depicted in this chapter; the construction in the original has the effect of a present contrary-to-fact protasis. The writer, Peter, views the statement as a premise which is contrary to fact. He says, "if it were true that these false prophets were just now being conqueredby sin and had already escaped the pollutions of the world (it is not true, but if it were) , then they would actually be in worse condition now than when they started." These false teachers of course had never really escaped the pollutions of the world like true believers (cf. 1:4) ; if they had, and were now as entangled (Gr empleco, meaning "hopelessly trapped" like a fish in a net) as they are in sin, they would be better off if they had never heard of Christianity. According to their pretense, they claim to have been saved; according to fact, they have returned to the most despicable sins. This would be, obviously, like a dog eating its vomit, or a pig which has been washed going back to wallow in the mire. (cf post #105)

False teachers are NOT saints. Stay in context.

 

[steaver]

(BobRyan)....


Matt 18

32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.

34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.

Clearly – “forgiveness revoked” with FULL payment made now – by the slave!

35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.''

when people cling to the false doctrine of OSAS they do so not because of the content in this Matt 18 text - but rather in spite of it.

Originally Posted by steaver
Brother BobRyan,

Pick one;

1) I am saved by grace through faith and not of myself.

2) I am saved if I forgive everyone from my heart.

I trust you will see that the view you present of Matt 18 must be in error in light of Eph 2 alone.

Well brother, you sure have glossed over these two post and you might hope they get buried somewhere in your multiple postings of the same points that have already been refuted...........but here they are and remain...


God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

II Pet 2:20-22, "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: "The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire."

It is pretty clear that they escaped AND then were entangled AGAIN - no "other scenario" can be inserted INSTEAD of the one that Peter identifies.

And yet some will try to INSERT the exact NEGATIVE from what Peter is explicitly identified.

Peter does not say that these false teachers have escaped from the pollutions of the world.

Pretending that "they did NOT escape and were then entangled once again" makes no sense AND is untrue to the details in the text.

Obviously.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Both Eph 2 and Matt 18 are true -- BECAUSE neither of them teach the debunked doctrinal view of OSAS.

As both Matt 18 AND Romans 8 AND 1John 2 make clear the one who STARTS off in Christ and forgiven -- must choose to stay in that condition by daily walking with Christ. (1Cor 15 Paul says "I die daily")

In 1Co 9 Paul argues "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified" from a Gospel whose BENEFIT Paul stated in 1Cor 9 is "eternal life".

 

[charles_creech78]

Both Eph 2 and Matt 18 are true -- BECAUSE neither of them teach the debunked doctrinal view of OSAS.

As both Matt 18 AND Romans 8 AND 1John 2 make clear the one who STARTS off in Christ and forgiven -- must choose to stay in that condition by daily walking with Christ. (1Cor 15 Paul says "I die daily")

In 1Co 9 Paul argues "I buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the Gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified" from a Gospel whose BENEFIT Paul stated in 1Cor 9 is "eternal life".

Bob how are you saved?

 

[BobRyan]

Saved by faith through grace.

Not "saved by OSAS"

But as already pointed out - we can "observe" that OSAS failed in Matt 18, Romans 11, John 15, 2 Peter 2:20 etc etc.

 

[charles_creech78]

Saved by faith through grace.

Not "saved by OSAS"

But as already pointed out - we can "observe" that OSAS failed in Matt 18, Romans 11, John 15, 2 Peter 2:20 etc etc.

By who and what are you saved from.

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 1 - "He shall save his people from their sins"
John 3 "Whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life"

These texts show us who saves us as and from what --

And they also show that "Matt 18 forgiveness revoked" is NOT the "salvation promised". The forgiveness revoked is SALVATION being lost.

Ga 5:4 "SEVERED from Christ, FALLEN from grace" shows us "salvation lost"

1Cor 9 "Buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified"

Shows the warning of "salvation lost" APPLICABLE even to Paul.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[charles_creech78]

Matt 1 - "He shall save his people from their sins"
John 3 "Whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life"

These texts show us who saves us as and from what --

And they also show that "Matt 18 forgiveness revoked" is NOT the "salvation promised". The forgiveness revoked is SALVATION being lost.

Ga 5:4 "SEVERED from Christ, FALLEN from grace" shows us "salvation lost"

1Cor 9 "Buffet my body and make it my slave LEST after preaching the gospel to others I MYSELF should be disqualified"

Shows the warning of "salvation lost" APPLICABLE even to Paul.

In Christ,

Bob

What is salvation? Whosoever believes on Him should not perish but have everlasting life" So I guess he was lieing about them that believe should not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE. David lost his salvation to. Do you think David is in hell. Ro 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also GLORIFIED Ro 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Ro 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Ro 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? Ro 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Ro 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Ro 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come Ro 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto PERDITION; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. OSAS That is if you have been saved. Let me give you some scripture of a person that did not let God save them. Lu 11:24 When the UNCLEAN spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry PLACES, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. Lu 11:25 And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Lu 11:26 Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first . This man did not weight for God to save him. There is a travel from nature to grace. God will let you know what you are by nature (sinner) and what you must be by the grace of God( BORN AGAIN 1pe 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 1pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible SEED, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Like I said before . How can someone be born of God and be corruptible? When it clearly stats that it is INCORUPTIBLE by the WORD OF GOD which LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOREVER. This is if you are BORN OF GOD. And to them that are truely Born again I say to all of you Once Saved Always Saved. My God bless you all. Amen

 

[Ed Edwards]

...

Ga 5:4 "SEVERED from Christ, FALLEN from grace" shows us "salvation lost"

...

I disagree


Galations 5:4 (TNIV = Today's New International Version):

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]You who are trying to be justified by the law
have been alienated from Christ;
you have fallen away from grace.

If you are still trying to be justified by the Law
you never got saved.

'fallen away' could mean 'fail'. I admit
that 'fallen away' might mean that one had grace
and then left it - but 'fail' can't mean that.
If you failed to achieve grace - you never got saved.
(BTW, 'from' isn't in the Greek - only a word for
'fallen' and one for 'grace'. 'Failed grace' is what happens
to those who never got saved by Jesus.

[/FONT]