One Gospel or TWO - what say You?

[tragic_pizza]

ok I get it now. well I would think that would be just part of your view on how to be a Christian... but Im not sure.

That's exactly right.

 

[Claudia_T]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh
OK, then I'm right. Thanks. pizza

[offensive language deleted]

I love you, too.



You are going to have to be even more annoying to Shiloh so they will call you stupid instead of just ignorant, like they do me. --not that Im trying to brag or anything.

(just kidding) (sorta)

 

[Gershom]

Edit: Pretty colors Shiloh. Claudia won't see it, and I frankly could care less about your opinion.

You mean you couldn't care less. :type:

 

[tragic_pizza]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh
OK, then I'm right. Thanks. pizza


I love you, too.



You are going to have to be even more annoying to Shiloh so they will call you stupid instead of just ignorant, like they do me. --not that Im trying to brag or anything.

(just kidding) (sorta)

Well, I've gotten in a lot of trouble for calling names. Shiloh should take care.

 

[tragic_pizza]

You mean you couldn't care less. :type:

I think it's theoretically possible for me to care less, though.

I mean, I could fall asleep at my desk or something...

:smilewinkgrin:

 

[MB]

Hi Claudia;

Here are some different Bible verses that I think show that the Gospel was the same in the Old Testament as it is in the New, and that might help in the discussion:

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Romans 5:18.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12.

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all," Romans 4:16.

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43.

"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness." Romans 4:3.

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad." John 8:56.

"And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." 1 Corinthians 10:2-4.

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?" John 5:46,47.

"Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow." 1 Peter 1:10,11.

"And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself." Luke 24:27.

The Judean religon was based on the keeping of the Law, but one had to believe in God first in order to keep the Law. The Law can't save man neither can anything that man does. The problem as I see it with keeping the Law is that man cannot keep the Law. He never could. Which is why man needs a Savior.

Even David a man after God's own heart broke the Law even though he believed in God at the time. The atonement at the time wasn't good enough to pay for sins. It never was. It was only meant to show the future of Salvation. How was man saved before Christ?. Men were saved but they didn't have eternal life they did believe in God. None can come unto the Father except through Christ. Christ is the only way. there is no other.
Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Men didn't even know His name so they could be saved by Him.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

There Salvation only set them aside. Held captive to be set free by Christ if they accepted Christ.

I've never studied SDA I don't know what they believe. Although there is 4 gospels. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Even though the OT points to the NT they are seperated by being the old covenant and the new.
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

There never was any gospel even mentioned in the Old Testament.
MB

 

[tragic_pizza]

MB, yes there was. "Gospel" means "Good News." News of the Messiah's coming, at any time, was certainly VERY good news!

 

[Claudia_T]

MB:

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Hebrews 9:15.
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - The blood of Christ availed for believers the same in the old dispensation as it does in the new. The first promise made to man, that the seed of the woman should bruise the serpent's head, was as verily the gospel of Jesus Christ as was the song the angels sung over the plains of Bethlehem, to the shepherds, as they watched their flocks by night, "Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth, good will to men."[/FONT]

 

[tragic_pizza]

Claudia, your view doesn't seem to be much different than the Reformed understanding of Scripture as either pointing forward to, or reflecting back upon, the Word of God Incarnate, Jesus Christ.

It's all Gospel.

 

[BobRyan]

There is only one (1) Gospel. There is a scarlet thread of redemption that runs through the whole Bible. The theme of the whole Bible is the atoning work of the Lord Jesus Christ who is shown in every Book of the Bible.

So then blatantly dumping 39 books out of the 66 and insisting that they NOT be used for "correction for doctrine for instruction in righteousness that the man of God may be adequately equipeed" would be a "bad thing".

Claiming that 39 of the 66 do NOT contain the Gospel but contain some other means of salvation that would get you listed among the saints of Heb 11 is in fact teaching "another gospel"....

to that I would agree.

However, whether intentionally or ignorantly the SDA have made two (2) gosples by saying they trust the blood of Jesus Christ to save them but ultimately making the devil their redeemer.

Then of course there is Shiloh -- making stuff up "as usual".

Sad to see that twist taken on this thread by Shiloh -- but I had to call him on it -- since he was kind enough to MAKE my point in the first part of his post.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Gospel is the Power of God unto Salvation. I only believe in One God and Jesus being the Saviour. I also believe when the Scripture says God so loved the world, that it included those who lived before Jesus came in the flesh. They were promised a Messiah and they received one. His blood covered all who would believe in Him. Also, He is God in the flesh.

Jhn 17:21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

So this appears to be another vote in FAVOR of the 66 books of the Bible presenting the ONE TRUE gospel from cover to cover. "Saved by grace through faith and that not of yourselves - it is the gift of God".

You reject the notion that the ONE Gospel -- is NOT to be found in the teaching of the OT text?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

It is called the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is a NT message not found in the OT. In Hebrews it tells us ..."having not yet received the promise..." The gospel is a NT message.
Can the SDA's demonstrate their doctrine without the OT.

DHK strips scripture down to 27 out of the 66 books and denies that the SCRIPTURE being spoken of in 2Tim 3:15-17 DOES contain the one and ONLY Gospel.

Even though Paul says in Heb 4 "the gospel was preached to US JUST as it was to THEM also". Speaking of the ONE gospel - the ONLY Gospel preached in all of scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

5. Who are the 144,000 in Rev.14? Are they you guys or the JW"s
6. According to you can a "christian" get to heaven if they never tithe or give to the church?

I think it's time the people see how dangerous you are! Gal.1:8,9!

Where did they dig this guy up??? At some point he will find an end to "story telling" and will show some value for the Word of God -- or an ounce of truth... but until then...

 

[BobRyan]

Edit: Pretty colors Shiloh. Claudia won't see it, and I frankly could care less about your opinion.

There seems to be a ground swell of opinion when it comes to Shiloh --

Now back to DHK's point in the OP

 

[Claudia_T]

Where did they dig this guy up??? At some point he will find an end to "story telling" and will show some value for the Word of God -- or an ounce of truth... but until then...

..tell me about it... I ended up putting him on ignore finally cause I got tired of him following me around insulting me, or at least trying to

 

[BobRyan]

Since Shilow is still trying to hijack this thread with wild fantasies instead of focused on the OP -- here it is again -- please note the inconvenient details...


--------------------------------

From the SDA thread page 12 DHK said


Quote

DHK said:
The SDA's are so stuck to the law of the OT that given the opportunity they could not prove their doctrine using only the NT.
Yet the gospel is a NT message. The church began at Pentecost. It is called the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. It is a NT message not found in the OT. In Hebrews it tells us ..."having not yet received the promise..." The gospel is a NT message.
Can the SDA's demonstrate their doctrine without the OT. Le't see what happens.

By Contrast to that "Good Bible vs Bad Bible" approach to SCRIPTURE - Paul says in 2Tim 3 "ALL Scripture is inspired AND is used for Doctrine".

In Gal 1:6-9 we are told that in ALL of time there has only been ONE GOSPEL and in Gal 3:7 we are told that this Gospel was PREACHED to Abraham.

In John 8:56 Christ said "Abraham SAW My day and was glad"

in 1Peter 1 we are told that this ONE Gospel was revealed to the OT prophets -- by the "Spirit of CHRIST that was IN THEM"

1 Peter 1
10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries,
11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

And yet the Gospel denying - scripture slicing approach that DHK models for us -- is still very common. What is your view of the Gospel and of scripture?

"Whatever is not repeated Get's deleated"? so that when things stop repeating you can do away with them?

"Good Bible bad Bible"? Anyone quoting from the OT is in error?

"Gospel is only in Malachi? Or Luke? Matt 28?" such that "I won't read scripture from any other parts of God's Word"??

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

..tell me about it... I ended up putting him on ignore finally cause I got tired of him following me around insulting me, or at least trying to

Wise choice -- I think he is allergic to truth. Some kind of wild fantasy reaction whenever he sees it. But enough about his gaming the thread - on with our topic.

 

[BobRyan]

Any time you have to say that the Gospel IS NOT in the OT you are admitting that either the OT saints of Heb 11 were not saved OR the were saved and lived their lives as STATED in Heb 11 - fully accepted by God under "another Gospel".

I don't see how you can escape this fact.

 

[MB]

Hi Claudia

MB:

"And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." Hebrews 9:15.
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]NOTE. - The blood of Christ availed for believers the same in the old dispensation as it does in the new. The first promise made to man, that the seed of the woman should bruise the serpent's head, was as verily the gospel of Jesus Christ as was the song the angels sung over the plains of Bethlehem, to the shepherds, as they watched their flocks by night, "Glory to God in the highest, peace on earth, good will to men."[/FONT]

Men both in the OT and NT if saved at all are saved by the blood of Christ. The difference is the in OT believers had to wait for the only atonement that was good enough to pay for there sins. David said;
Psa 16:9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: my flesh also shall rest in hope.
Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psa 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.
David was in hell when he learned of Jesus' atonement and when during the three days Christ body lay in the tomb Jesus descended there to set the captives free Verse 11 shows that David believed that the Lord would come and show him the way.
MB

 

[Brother Bob]

You reject the notion that the ONE Gospel -- is NOT to be found in the teaching of the OT text?

Hbr 4:2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

If it was preached unto them (same one) then it was in the OT also.

One