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One, or both of these, Must Be FALSE.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Alan Gross, Nov 9, 2022.

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  1. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    One, or both of these, Must Be FALSE.

    from: Two Thoughts

    It was said on another post that:

    "There are basically two views of how God brings one to salvation,"

    However, one, or both of these, Must Be FALSE.

    "either God has determined all that will be saved and only they will be saved"

    "or He has provided the information so that man can choose to accept
    or reject the offer of salvation."

    (and the first one IS TRUE)
     
    #1 Alan Gross, Nov 9, 2022
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Depending on how one understands both statements both can be understood to be true.
     
    #2 37818, Nov 9, 2022
  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I see this (the OP) as a false dichotomy.

    They can both be true (and both are).
     
    #3 JonC, Nov 9, 2022
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  4. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    There is no "offer of salvation".

    There is a Command to Repent.

    The "information" God provides is unto death, unless God Quickens and Makes Spiritually Alive the dead sinner, or they will never choose God, but only Reject God, His Son, and the Holy Ghost.
     
    #4 Alan Gross, Nov 9, 2022
  5. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    If the second is true, man is the ultimate determiner of his destiny, and can therefore trump God, and is therefore greater than God, hence it cannot be true.
     
    #5 Piper, Nov 9, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Only if the first is false.

    The first can be true (that God has determined who will be saved) without the second being false (that God has provided the information so that man can choose to accept or reject the offer of salvation).
     
    #6 JonC, Nov 9, 2022
  7. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    Well, in God's divine Ordination of the universe, he has decreed that certain people would accept and certain would reject. For what purpose is left up to the Potter. See Romans 9.
     
    #7 Piper, Nov 10, 2022
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  8. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I'm saying that man makes his plans, but God establishes his steps.

    I didn't say one of those truths are false (I am saying both are true).
     
    #8 JonC, Nov 10, 2022
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Silly, man only has a choice for salvation only if actual salvation is really being offered. Isaiah 43:10-11.
     
    #9 37818, Nov 10, 2022
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  10. Piper

    Piper Active Member
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    What does that even mean?
    The offer is real (Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.).

    God has elected some to salvation ( Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.),

    and those will be effectually drawn. (No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.)
     
    #10 Piper, Nov 14, 2022
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  11. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    According to Matthew 22:14 more are called than elect. Per Matthew 7:13-14 and John 6:44-45, ". . . No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. . . ."
     
    #11 37818, Nov 14, 2022
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