Oneness doctrine

[Jedi Knight]

Ran into someone who thinks diffrently about the trinity than most evangelicals. They subscribe to the oneness doctrine of "no trinity" and God is one. Would you consider such a person or denomination part of a cult or mislead on this important subject?

 

[menageriekeeper]

Mislead at best, heretical at worst. Depends on the individual.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Do you believe that those who subscribe to the oneness doctrine "no trinity" is true born again believers?

Of course, *IF* they have been born of the Spirit...regenerated...then they are Gods children, even though they are in error regarding this topic.

We are justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ.

NOT by faith alone plus getting the triune nature of God right. Its Faith in Christ that saves.

Would you consider such a person or denomination part of a cult or mislead on this important subject?

Misled? Of course. A cult? No, not like the Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons, Hari Krishna's, Mary Baker Eddy etc etc.

I'm sure some others will disagree, but thats how I view them.


AiC

 

[DHK]

Ran into someone who thinks diffrently about the trinity than most evangelicals. They subscribe to the oneness doctrine of "no trinity" and God is one. Would you consider such a person or denomination part of a cult or mislead on this important subject?

They are a definite cult.
They believe that baptism and speaking in tongues are required for salvation.
They don't believe in the trinity.
They believe in manifestations of personages of the trinity. That is, in the OT was the Father. In the Gospels Jesus became a manifestation of the Father, and in the Book of Acts the Holy Spirit became a manifestation of Christ. There is only one God but he is manifested in one of the three "personages," not persons.

Oneness people used to post here, but they were banned for their heretical beliefs, especially on the trinity.

 

[Jedi Knight]

They are a definite cult.
They believe that baptism and speaking in tongues are required for salvation.
They don't believe in the trinity.
They believe in manifestations of personages of the trinity. That is, in the OT was the Father. In the Gospels Jesus became a manifestation of the Father, and in the Book of Acts the Holy Spirit became a manifestation of Christ. There is only one God but he is manifested in one of the three "personages," not persons.

Oneness people used to post here, but they were banned for their heretical beliefs, especially on the trinity.

Hey DHK,do you think a person can be a true believer under such thinking?

 

[DHK]

Hey DHK,do you think a person can be a true believer under such thinking?

No, for two reasons.
1. If they don't believe in the trinity they don't believe in the God of the Bible. Unbelief in the trinity leads to an attack on the deity of Christ.
2. Adding baptism and tongues as a requirement to salvation is legalism in its purest sense. That is what the Judaizers tried to do with circumcision and the law. Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works. Their idea of salvation is by works. One cannot be saved by works. Their message is a message of works and not of faith. It is a gospel of which Paul says is accursed.

 

[BobRyan]

Ran into someone who thinks diffrently about the trinity than most evangelicals. They subscribe to the oneness doctrine of "no trinity" and God is one. Would you consider such a person or denomination part of a cult or mislead on this important subject?

label-this label-that is worthless. The Jews called the Christians "a sect" and Paul proudly accepted the label. Simply coming up with labels is not a valid-yet-funny kind of exegesis of anything.

It is far more substantive to discuss exactly what those people are saying and whether or not the Bible supports them.

If they are denying that Jesus is God or that the Holy Spirit is God or that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are distinct beings "God in THREE persons" then they need to show that this is supported in scripture. As far as I can see that kind of one-ness is not supported in scripture.

In John 17 Jesus says "I pray that THEY may be one even as WE are one".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Jedi Knight]

label-this label-that is worthless.

Sorry Bob but the book of Jude would strongly disagree with "label-that is worthless"....... some times it very necessary .

 

[matt wade]

The Trinity is one of the fundamentals of the faith. Deny the Trinity and you are not a Christian and definitely a heretic.

 

[Alive in Christ]

For it is by grace that you are saved, through faith and the correct understanding of the trinity, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

I dont know, it just seems like something has been stuck in there that shouldnt be there.

I am the bread of life, and he who comes to me shall never hunger, and he who believes in me and holds to the correct understanding of the trinity, shall never thirst...all that the Father gives to me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will by no means cast out.

I get the same feeling about that passage.

I could go on all night, of course...

I personally think that the understanding we have of the triune nature of God is the best discription there is.

But if other brothers and sisters, who clearly believe in God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit, but who articulate it a bit differently then we do, and believe the triune God functions differently then we believe, I am for sure not going to hurl the fires of condemnation towards them.

In situations such as this, grace seems "the better way to go" for me.

We are not talking here regarding Islam, or the Mormons or Catholicism, David Koresh, or the Hari Krishnas, or the Jehovahs Witnesses, or Mary Baker Eddy, etc etc etc.

This is a much different situation. When it comes to groups like the one'ness pentecostals, the 7th day adventists, and the Church of Christ, we are talking about a different situation.

It calles for a much more grace centered approach.

AiC

 

[drfuss]

No, for two reasons.
1. If they don't believe in the trinity they don't believe in the God of the Bible. Unbelief in the trinity leads to an attack on the deity of Christ.
2. Adding baptism and tongues as a requirement to salvation is legalism in its purest sense. That is what the Judaizers tried to do with circumcision and the law. Salvation is by grace through faith, not by works. Their idea of salvation is by works. One cannot be saved by works. Their message is a message of works and not of faith. It is a gospel of which Paul says is accursed.

Most pentecostal churches and the SBC consider the Oneness Pentecostal Church to be a cult for the above two reasons. However, the Oneness Pentecostal Church is very vocal concerning the above two beliefs, particularily on the radio. This has lead some to mistakingly believe that most pentecostal churches believe as the Oneness Pentecostals do.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Most pentecostal churches and the SBC consider the Oneness Pentecostal Church to be a cult for the above two reasons. However, the Oneness Pentecostal Church is very vocal concerning the above two beliefs, particularily on the radio. This has lead some to mistakingly believe that most pentecostal churches believe as the Oneness Pentecostals do.

Is there really "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4)???? Is there really another God????? What is Idolatry? Isn't idolatry the recongition and worship of a false god? Can idolaters be saved if the mental concept of Christ and God is "another Jesus" and/or "another god"??

Jn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Does a person "know" Jesus or God if what they are perceving in their mind to be what the scriptures claim to be "another Jesus" and another God????

Isn't the essence of idolatry a false perception of God?

It is one thing to lack full understanding of Jesus and God, it is quite another thing to assert belief in "another Jesus" or "another God." Incomplete information is not necessarily wrong information but insufficient. However, wrong information distorts the truth.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

They are a definite cult.
They believe that baptism and speaking in tongues are required for salvation.
They don't believe in the trinity.
They believe in manifestations of personages of the trinity. That is, in the OT was the Father. In the Gospels Jesus became a manifestation of the Father, and in the Book of Acts the Holy Spirit became a manifestation of Christ. There is only one God but he is manifested in one of the three "personages," not persons.

Oneness people used to post here, but they were banned for their heretical beliefs, especially on the trinity.

I agree with DHK on this one. Generally speaking most of the Oneness I have run into, or better, run over by, have been members of a Pentecostal Cult that believes that if you don't speak in tongues you aren't saved.

This is because they believe that the only manifestation of having the Spirit of God is Speaking in Tongues and that, therefore, if you don't speak in tongues, you don't have the spirit, and if you don't have the spirit you aren't saved.

They tend to be *very* domineering and I have heard it is *very* hard to get out once inside...

There is such a church here in Albany, and they are very careful on their web site not to give too many of those details away...

 

[drfuss]

Quote:
Originally Posted by drfuss
Most pentecostal churches and the SBC consider the Oneness Pentecostal Church to be a cult for the above two reasons. However, the Oneness Pentecostal Church is very vocal concerning the above two beliefs, particularily on the radio. This has lead some to mistakingly believe that most pentecostal churches believe as the Oneness Pentecostals do.


Dr walter writes:

Is there really "another Jesus" (2 Cor. 11:4)???? Is there really another God????? What is Idolatry? Isn't idolatry the recongition and worship of a false god? Can idolaters be saved if the mental concept of Christ and God is "another Jesus" and/or "another god"??

Jn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Does a person "know" Jesus or God if what they are perceving in their mind to be what the scriptures claim to be "another Jesus" and another God????

Isn't the essence of idolatry a false perception of God?

It is one thing to lack full understanding of Jesus and God, it is quite another thing to assert belief in "another Jesus" or "another God." Incomplete information is not necessarily wrong information but insufficient. However, wrong information distorts the truth.

drfuss: I don't understand what you wrote has anything to do with my post. Perhaps you were responding to someone else.

 

[DHK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by drfuss
Most pentecostal churches and the SBC consider the Oneness Pentecostal Church to be a cult for the above two reasons. However, the Oneness Pentecostal Church is very vocal concerning the above two beliefs, particularily on the radio. This has lead some to mistakingly believe that most pentecostal churches believe as the Oneness Pentecostals do.

Dr walter writes:

Jn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

drfuss: I don't understand what you wrote has anything to do with my post. Perhaps you were responding to someone else.

I believe he is simply pointing out that since the Oneness deny the trinity they cannot have eternal life since they do not know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent.

 

[The Word]

Ran into someone who thinks diffrently about the trinity than most evangelicals. They subscribe to the oneness doctrine of "no trinity" and God is one. Would you consider such a person or denomination part of a cult or mislead on this important subject?

Why doesn't anyone ever ask God if he's three in one? I happened to ask him and this is what he taught me.

The Roman government never stopped killing saints after Saul had St. Stephen killed by being stoned to death. The jealous Jews who had Jesus killed by the Roman government didn't realize that the saints would become like Jesus and preach the same gospel. They went to the Roman authorities and convinced them they had to do something about these saints.

The Romans passed a law to prohibit the gospel from being preached and anyone who gets caught preaching God will be arrested and executed. It took the next three hundred years to eradicate all the saints who preached the gospel. They confiscated most of their writings during those three hundred years but they couldn't kill the followers of the saints who were still sinful children of God.

The Roman government used their leader, Constantine to find a way to deceive these children of God so they used some of their pagan churches and renamed them the Roman Catholic church. Constantine announced himself as the first pope in succession to St. Peter and this was the beginning of Christianity as we know it today. The biggest deception was the new testament they produced from some of the saint's writings.

Constantine had his translators remove any evidence of the true gospel from these writings and then add pagan ideas to them to make sure these children of God couldn't become sinless saints and preach the same gospel as the other saints. They had to remove the idea that the Holy Spirit, also called the Word, is the voice of God who was created in the beginning as light energy. By making the flesh of Jesus a god, it was easy to keep these followers from understanding the true way to the truth and the life.

The Father and son are just names of the Holy Spirit because there's only one true God and the Word was created as his voice. The Word is God as much as God's plans are God. They cannot perform separately as the triune God idea suggests. This is just a pagan religious idea to keep everyone distracted from the true God.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Why doesn't anyone ever ask God if he's three in one? I happened to ask him and this is what he taught me.

The Father and son are just names of the Holy Spirit because there's only one true God and the Word was created as his voice. The Word is God as much as God's plans are God. They cannot perform separately as the triune God idea suggests. This is just a pagan religious idea to keep everyone distracted from the true God.

- So you think God is a schisophrenic?

"And God (Elohim) said let US make man in OUR image" - Gen. 1:26

The Hebrew term "Elohim" is a plural noun used with plural pronouns and singular verbs and direct objects

The Apostle John says "The Word" preexisted all created things:

"In the beginning WAS the Word and the Word WAS with God and the Word WAS God.....3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

The Greek imperfect tranlated "WAS" three times in John 1:1 grammatically demands The Word was ALREADY EXISTING prior to "the beignning" and that he simeltaneously was in existence with "God" and yet existed as "God."

The "beginning" is defined in John 1:2-3 as the origin of the first created thing.

Better let God talk you through the Scriptures - they are inspired - you are not!

 

[Dr. Walter]

Why doesn't anyone ever ask God if he's three in one? I happened to ask him and this is what he taught me.

The Father and son are just names of the Holy Spirit because there's only one true God and the Word was created as his voice. The Word is God as much as God's plans are God. They cannot perform separately as the triune God idea suggests. This is just a pagan religious idea to keep everyone distracted from the true God.

Do you believe Jesus is a schizophrenic too? He says that if he only bears witness to himself his witness is not true. He is referring to God's law that there must be at least two or three witnesses to validate a claim in court: Who is the other witness that validates the claim of Jesus?

John 5:31 ¶ If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32 There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

Mt 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2Co 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.


If the the terms "Jesus" and "Father" are but "names" then please find in scripture where just "names" were valid witnesses to be used in a court of law?

 

[Crabtownboy]

God is one God who have shown himself to us in three ways. There are not three Gods.

 

[The Word]

- So you think God is a schisophrenic?

"And God (Elohim) said let US make man in OUR image" - Gen. 1:26

The Hebrew term "Elohim" is a plural noun used with plural pronouns and singular verbs and direct objects

The Apostle John says "The Word" preexisted all created things:

"In the beginning WAS the Word and the Word WAS with God and the Word WAS God.....3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

The Greek imperfect tranlated "WAS" three times in John 1:1 grammatically demands The Word was ALREADY EXISTING prior to "the beignning" and that he simeltaneously was in existence with "God" and yet existed as "God."

The "beginning" is defined in John 1:2-3 as the origin of the first created thing.

Better let God talk you through the Scriptures - they are inspired - you are not!

You can use all the man-made excuses you want but there's only one God, not three-in-one. When the Word was revealed in me on June 16, 2008, there was only one spirit and that's all it's ever been. If you had experience with the spirit, then you would realize there's only one spirit.