Only 40% of Baptist believe Christ lived a sinless life.

And you're just the Baptist that God would have to straighten us all out, right?

 

Bill, only the church growth pundits care about Barna.

 

Well, well! The poll is a lot smarter than I thought it was----from my own consensis

I am personally part of that 40% who believe in the impeccability of the Lord Jesus Christ!

I am part of the 65% who believe there is a devil---a real, live one that would love to sink his teeth in some unsuspecting soul!

I am also part of the 22% who have seen evangelism work and knows that the church will go into hybernation without it!

I might not can straighten Primative Baptist out---but by golly, I can staighten out those who want to be straightened out!!! All of the others who don't want to be straightened out---can stay all bent out of shape 'til Jesus comes!!

 

Bill, I am also appalled that such numbers exist. Next thing ya know, they'll be telling us Jesus fathered at least one child by Mary Magdalene...oh, yeah, they've already tried that one!

 

How many of Barna's book have you read?

Here is a quote from one of his books.

From the book Growing True Disciples by George Barna , pages 128 - 132


Let's Be Real

Truthfully, while disciple-making must be a priority for you, by whatever means you select, you must enter the process with your eyes open. What happens when you make true disciples - not just students or group members, but real zealots for Christ?

Peoples lives change
The collection of disciples - the true Church - gains favor with the world.
Society is changed by the disciples.
Society experiences turmoil as a result of the Church being true to God's truths and commands.
Disciples are persecuted.

Making disciples and being a disciple is not a complete joyride. Disciple-making is not the answer to every cultural problem that exists - in fact, an effective discipleship process may create new tensions and animosities within the culture as God's principles clash with Satan's principles in the battle of spiritual kingdoms. But the hardships that arise as a result of engagement in disciple-making are no excuse to avoid or minimize our devotion to the process and its outcomes; in fact, they are an indicator that the Church is being the Church. As long as the battle between good and evil persists, we will not experience a peaceful, loving, wholly satisfying society. However, while being avid, passionate disciples of Jesus Christ will not bring about the perfect society, the thrust to be true disciples is the answer for each of us, individually, in the quest to become pleasing and honorable people in God's eyes.

We cannot help but have a positive impact on the world when we are being Christ-like, even though the results of our life may not always look pretty. Not even Jesus, the Son of God, the Prince of Peace, the Savior of Humankind, was loved by all people. If we follow His ways and His footsteps, we should not expect to be loved and accepted by everyone either. But God, the Father of Creation, was completely pleased with the work of the Son - and that was all that mattered to the Son. So Jesus is our model and that is our challenge: to gain the acceptance of the Father, by imitating the work of the Son, through the empowerment of the Spirit. The results that emerge are up to God to disentangle. That is a task clearly beyond our capabilities.

When you hire people, you study their lives to look for clues as to what they will be like as an employee. When you buy products, you study the contents and reviews to determine which products will provide the outcomes you desire. As you strive to become a disciple and to make disciples, keep your eyes on the substance of the subject, whether it is you or someone whom you are discipling.


Here's what you're looking for - and, if it's absent, what you are trying to infuse within the true disciple:
the passion of Stephen
the joy of the post-Pentecost apostles
the integrity of Nathanael
the availability of Mary
the perseverance of Paul
the transformation of Peter
the wisdom of James
the servanthood of Martha
the love of John
the generosity of Joseph the Levite from Cyprus
the seriousness of John the Baptist
the studiousness of Luke
the humility and reverent faith of the centurion
the evangelistic sharing of Andrew
the character of Jesus


None of these stalwarts of the faith (with the exception of Jesus) was a perfect representation of each of the qualities listed here. Each of these individuals stood out for a handful of qualities, and presumably worked on developing other qualities that brought them into greater conformity with Jesus' life. As you study their paths to glory keep in mind that even the models of our faith fell short of the glory of God. By our very nature, we always will; but by God's will, we must not accept our limitations as excuses to give up.

The real obstacles to becoming a fully devoted, zealous disciple of Christ are not money, time, methods or knowledge. The major obstacle is the human heart. When that changes, all else changes. Jesus frequently reminded His disciples that the problem was not one of knowledge but of character The Pharisees had more religious knowledge than they knew what to do with but they lacked the character to apply it in ways that transformed themselves and their world. Judas spent many months living with Jesus, observing His ways and His miracles, learning timeless and transforming principles directly from the lips of the Master, and yet all of His knowledge and experience could not compensate for a wicked heart. A disciple is a person of Christian character. Just as Paul instructed his young disciple Timothy, if you develop appropriate character, the rest will follow.

Go, Therefore...

Be a true disciple. Go and make disciples.
And what will it look like, when it works?

True discipleship produces holistic personal transformation, not mere assimilation into a community of church members.

True discipleship is witnessed by people who are determined to be a blessing to others - people who are never content to simply accept and enjoy God's blessings to them.

True discipleship creates Christians who aggressively pursue spiritual growth rather than passively experience spiritual evolution.

True discipleship spawns individuals who develop renewed lifestyles instead of believers who mechanically check off completed assignments on a developmental agenda.

True discipleship results in people who are more concerned about the quality of their character than the extent of their knowledge.

True discipleship builds churches known for their culture of love, commitment and service rather than for their events, information and programs.

True discipleship facilitates people devoted to a lifelong journey to imitate Jesus Christ, rather than the completion of a short-term regimen of tasks and responsibilities.

Do you passionately want to become a zealous disciple of Jesus Christ? Are you committed to bring others with you on that amazing journey?

Discipleship is about complete obedience to the Word of God, driven by a heart that can stand to do nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing less and a mind that knows it pays to focus on nothing else. Can we fulfill this mammoth challenge? Jesus, our mentor, says we can. "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in Me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these..." (John 14:12)

If you are devoted to the process of spiritual growth, and to allowing God's Holy Spirit to shape you on that journey, how you end up will bear scant resemblance to what you were when you began the journey.

 

Plain Old Bill, AMEN AMEN and AMEN

 

Plain Ole Bill, I agree with Blackbird.

You know, people can join a Baptist church and not be Baptists in their heart. I could sleep in my garage and it wouldn't make me a car.

 

Wow. I have a hard time believing that one. It would be nice to know how the question was phrased. Any one have a link?

That is somewhat disturbing if accurate. I would have thought the number to be much higher. I just don't see how you could be a Baptist and not believe that Christ was sinless.

 

I had a CBF Pastor's wife say 'Even Jesus sinned. He just didn't mean to'.

I'm more saddened than shocked.

 

Well we should not be to shocked by this. we are seeing apostacy enter in among the church and being Baptist doesnt make you immune only teaching/preaching *truth* makes us immune and walking faithful in His word.This is another sign of Christs return we are living in Loadicean times when christ is standing outside of His church which is neither hot nor cold and we know what he does with it!

 

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 5 But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

 

Spot on, we are living in dificult times and the church and its congregations do have ears that like to be tickled, also some dont want to walk by Faith alone they want to *See* and they want to *experiance feelings* so things are being brought in not of God and then it escalates to full blown apostacy and heresy

 

I once asked a young man if he was a Christian. He replied, “No, I’m a Baptist!”

 

Couldnt he be a bit of both?

 

Not being a Christian but being a Baptist? Kinda like being a little bit pregnant. How could someone who was trusting in the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus as full atonement for his sins say, "I am not a Christian, I am a Baptist". Sound to me like his faith is in his dunking or his denomination.