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Only Married in the eyes of God

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Deacon, Sep 22, 2002.

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  1. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Front page picture and prominent article in the Life section of my local Sunday paper discusses an interesting topic that may bring up some debate. (I’ve taken the liberty of changing the names.)

    One of the attendees of our youth group in past years was a young man with Down syndrome. He is a nice, popular, energetic young man of limited intelligence, who is involved in Special Olympics. While there, he met a young woman, described in the article as mildly retarded, legally blind and prone to seizures. Both have work restrictions due to their health problems. They fell in love. Recently he proposed to her. She said yes!

    Quotes from the paper: “Bucky said he’s ready to live on his own, but his mother told him he still needs more time. ‘Bucky you still have skill to learn like shaving. Right now dad shaves you.’ “If you can’t take care of yourselves properly, you can’t do it on your own.” “We love our kids and we want it to work. In order for them to have a full life, we have to make sure they are ready.” “The mothers said the lovebirds are about two years away from being ready to leave the nest.”

    Here's the problem: The families are in the process of determining whether it would be more financially advantageous for the young man to live together or to marry because they could lose some Social Security benefits if they marry.

    “Either way, the families plan to hold a ceremony for Bucky and Carol to mark the start of their lives together.”

    What do you think about having a ceremony to marry the couple, but not an official civil ceremony therefore leaving them single in the eyes of the law?

    As a pastor, would you, could you, “marry” them in this manner?
     
    #1 Deacon, Sep 22, 2002
  2. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    No. Unfortunately there have been cases of people in Baptist churches (names of individuals and churches will not be given) where couples got a divorce in order to save money through taxes, social security, etc.

    Honor God. He will provide.

    Rev. G
     
    #2 Rev. G, Sep 22, 2002
  3. Sherrie

    Sherrie New Member

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    No this is wrong.

    Sherrie
     
    #3 Sherrie, Sep 23, 2002
  4. TaterTot

    TaterTot Guest

    no. My brother-in-law is also mentally retarded but very high functional. Although his financial situation also is "set" through the government, I feel it would be wrong. Sin is sin.
     
    #4 TaterTot, Sep 23, 2002
  5. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

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    Not in the U.S., where marrriage usually requires
    a waiting period, certificate, and a promise
    made by the couple before a state-approved
    official. A lie is a lie.
     
    #5 Abiyah, Sep 23, 2002
  6. post-it

    post-it <img src=/post-it.jpg>

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    I'm surprised this was even a question. A lie with harm attached is a sin. Teaching others in the family and community that it is ok to defraud the Government and tax payers is a clear crossing of the line. No Pastor could ever perform such a marriage for that purpose (fraud).
     
    #6 post-it, Sep 23, 2002
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Thanks, you’all confirmed my feelings on the matter.
    This is not such an uncommon arrangement though, particularly in regards to the elderly. They may have to give up pensions and other such retirement benefits should they remarry.
     
    #7 Deacon, Sep 23, 2002
  8. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    As a pastor I would refuse to marry them and be insistant that they honor the laws of the government. If I marry them I am just as guilty as they!
     
    #8 blackbird, Sep 23, 2002
  9. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus New Member

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    200 years ago there wasn't any welfare "Dole" system to defraud and ministers of the gospel realized they were not agents of the Gov't and uncle Sam had nothing to do with marriages any way. Just remembering the "old paths".
    Thank you.
     
    #9 Bartimaeus, Sep 23, 2002
  10. Lauren

    Lauren New Member

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    Not okay. My husband and I lost tax benefits by getting married. We had been living together before that and I was his domestic partner and dependent (I quit working to take care of his kids before the legal marriage), which we were able to take a bigger deduction than if we were married. It is worth it to be married for real. Still I think that the IRS oughtta do sometihng about the marriage penalty. Its kinda not right but thats no excuse to skirt the law.
    peace-L
     
    #10 Lauren, Sep 23, 2002
  11. Grammy1013

    Grammy1013 <img src =/Kate.gif>

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    I wouldn't forego the govt marriage license to defraud anyone, I'd do it because the govt has no business in the marriage ... period.
     
    #11 Grammy1013, Sep 23, 2002
  12. Rev. G

    Rev. G New Member

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    Grammy:

    I must say, you are correct.... Marriage was instituted by God, not the state.

    Rev. G
     
    #12 Rev. G, Sep 23, 2002
  13. Abiyah

    Abiyah <img src =/abiyah.gif>

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    We choose to live in the U.S. We have laws here.
    We must either follow the laws, change them, or
    leave. Government is involved, so if we are to
    have a legal marriage, we will do as the govern-
    ment says. We are not breaking any of our
    God's laws by doing so. We have, rather, been
    told to be obedient to those laws which do not
    cross His laws.
     
    #13 Abiyah, Sep 23, 2002
  14. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    I have no problem with that. It shouldn't be up to the government to say when a marriage is over, so it shouldn't be up to them to say when it starts.
    There is no law against living together. It was the government's idea to quit recognizing marriages on people's word (common law marriages) and to make laws that promote living together without being married.
    If they won't recognize a marriage ordained by God as a marriage that's their problem.
    And if they'd take away funds from someone for being married and continue promoting people living together instead(IMO that's what they do) than I don't feel bad at all.
    Gina
     
    #14 Gina B, Sep 23, 2002
  15. Grammy1013

    Grammy1013 <img src =/Kate.gif>

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    I agree. But there's no govt law that says one HAS to be married by the state. If you want to 'enjoy' (and I use that term loosely [​IMG] ) the things the govt offers people who are married by the state, then of course, you must be married by the state.

    I was married by the state once. If I should be so blessed to be married again, it will be in God's eyes only. He'll provide for me.
     
    #15 Grammy1013, Sep 23, 2002
  16. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    I get the feeling that we are forgetting that WE are to provide for one another...

    If we did, there would be no temptation to lie to the government, which we are told to respect and obey.

    And when I think of our witness to the world, it does seem to me that trusting God is a big part of it.

    If the young couple is to be married officially and really, what is wrong with the church helping them out? Aren't we part of one body? Doesn't the arm hold the crutch for a broken foot?
     
    #16 Helen, Sep 23, 2002
  17. Gina B

    Gina B Active Member

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    That's very true Helen.
    Unfortunately most churches either won't (usual case) or aren't capable of that. Most I've seen just refer to the agencies that do. Of course, everywhere's different, that's just what I've noticed personally.
    Gina
     
    #17 Gina B, Sep 23, 2002
  18. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus New Member

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    Helen,
    Would you respect and obey a husband that beat you and ask you to share your bed (forgive my cude example) with another woman?
    *****I think NOT*****
    The Husband is "ordained" as long as he stays within his scriptural boundries, i.e. obeys God, loves, honor and respects you, (as his wife).
    When that husband becomes a "tyrant" and leaves God he no longer has God's ordination.
    America's HOLY, SCRIPTURAL, heroic beginning was "Rebellion to tyranny is obedience to God".
    I am a pastor and I will not say, "By the authority of the state of ________, I now pronounce you man and wife."
    The original question may be scripturally moot by virtue that Gov't has no business in God's institution and our handicapped children/adults are the responsibility of the parents until they can fend for themselves. The local church should and is scripturally required to help if needed.
     
    #18 Bartimaeus, Sep 27, 2002
  19. Farmer's Wife

    Farmer's Wife New Member

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    I've always wondered why, in the front of my Bible, it has a page that reads...

    I've been thinking about the state marriage license issue lately. I had always thought we had to have a state marriage license in ordered to be married! :rolleyes:

    What I've come to realize is that, in times past(before the state marriage license), each family had a 'Family Bible'; which contained the couple's marriage certification...along with other family information. It seems to me that when the state stepped in this area of ours lives...the family Bible was thrown out...and we wonder why so many marriages end in divorce today! :rolleyes:

    I have talked to a married couple that did not ask the state's permission to marry and was told that their notorized Family Bible marriage certificate has been accepted by government agencies as proof of marriage. So, yes they are married in the eyes of God and according to the government even though they did not obtain a state marriage license. [​IMG]
     
    #19 Farmer's Wife, Sep 27, 2002
  20. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946 Well-Known Member
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    One question are not we told by scripture to obey the laws of the land?... What if the laws of the land are supplanting or supersedeing or replacing the laws of God?... Then where is your stand?... Brother Glen :confused:
     
    #20 tyndale1946, Sep 27, 2002
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