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Order of salvation...

J

Jarthur001

Active Member
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth…(2 Tim 2:24-25)


When is one granded repentance?
 
J

Johnv

New Member
We humans tend to think in terms of "if/then". That's simpyl due to the fact that we're physical beings, limited to a timeline existence. Spiritual matters are not bound by the rules of "if/then", any more than they are bound by physical limitations.

So what does that have to do with repentence? Repentence is not an action or reaction. Repentence is an attitude. It's a condition of the heart. It's also not a single instance. It is perpetual. The verse is not talking about someone "receiving" repentence, it's talking about a person giving instruction in a manner that leads a person towards (and not away from) a relationship with God, which includes (but is not limited to) a condition of repentance.
 
preachinjesus

preachinjesus

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
From who's perspective?
God's...man's?

I've said this before, the internal mechanics of salvation are difficult at best to understand. Maybe they are supposed to be part of the mystery of God.
 
J

Jarthur001

Active Member
Johnv said:
We humans tend to think in terms of "if/then". That's simpyl due to the fact that we're physical beings, limited to a timeline existence. Spiritual matters are not bound by the rules of "if/then", any more than they are bound by physical limitations.

So what does that have to do with repentence? Repentence is not an action or reaction. Repentence is an attitude. It's a condition of the heart. It's also not a single instance. It is perpetual. The verse is not talking about someone "receiving" repentence, it's talking about a person giving instruction in a manner that leads a person towards (and not away from) a relationship with God, which includes (but is not limited to) a condition of repentance.
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if this be the case..(Which I would say it another way)...but if this be the case just as you said. When does..... "God grant them repentance"?

Before or after they know the truth?
 
J

Johnv

New Member
Jarthur001 said:
When does..... "God grant them repentance"? Before or after they know the truth?
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The answer is "yes". It's not a before/after condition in this verse. God is not limited to before/after or if/then. We as humans cannot fully understand that, because we're physically limited to if/then and before/after.

Again, the verse isn't addressing the one being instructed, it's addressing the one doing the instructing. The verse wasn't intended to answer the question of "when" a person receives salvation.
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Johnv said:
Again, the verse isn't addressing the one being instructed, it's addressing the one doing the instructing. The verse wasn't intended to answer the question of "when" a person receives salvation.
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I agree.............
 
J

Jarthur001

Active Member
Johnv said:
The answer is "yes". It's not a before/after condition in this verse. God is not limited to before/after or if/then. We as humans cannot fully understand that, because we're physically limited to if/then and before/after.
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Going by the verse, when would God want us to BELIEVE he granted it?

I'm not getting into the God and Time thing. I have been over that showing the real meaning from scripture so many times its not funny. This is always a cop out for Freewillers.

So when did God want us to believe he Grants it?

I'll just throw one thing out there...

When Christ is said to return someday....can we say based on your view of God and time....he has already returned?
 
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Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jarthur001 said:
I'm not getting into the God and Time thing. I have been over that showing the real meaning from scripture so many times its not funny. This is always a cop out for Freewillers.
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Incorrect. I thought it was jibberish. But the fact remains this verse fails to prove your point as you have taken it out of context.
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Jarthur001 said:
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth…(2 Tim 2:24-25)


When is one granded repentance?
Click to expand...
Who is the text written to and about?
 
O

OldRegular

Well-Known Member
Jarthur001 said:
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth…(2 Tim 2:24-25)


When is one granded repentance?
Click to expand...

Like faith repentance is also an essential aspect of conversion. However, the repentance associated with conversion must be proceeded by faith, that is, a person cannot truly repent of his sins against God until he believes that God is and that he has sinned against God.
 
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Jarthur001

Active Member
OldRegular said:
Like faith repentance is also an essential aspect of conversion. However, the repentance associated with conversion must be proceeded by faith, that is, a person cannot truly repent of his sins against God until he believes that God is and that he has sinned against God.
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I think we have our 1st answer. No twisting the words....just addressing the passage.

Thanks OR
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
Jarthur001 said:
When was it granted? Not who.

We can address who later. When was it granted?

understand?
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...apparently you don't with statement like Before or after they know the truth?

If you don't know the basics of who and what, I would suggest studying up on them and coming back to play at a later date
 
J

Jarthur001

Active Member
webdog said:
...apparently you don't with statement like Before or after they know the truth?

If you don't know the basics of who and what, I would suggest studying up on them and coming back to play at a later date
Click to expand...

maybe you would like to give a answer.

When was it granted?

Allow me to repost..
And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth…(2 Tim 2:24-25)

OR has given the right answer.

Now lets address what you brought up.

WHO was this talking about?

The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,

25with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,

26and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.
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Who are "THEY" in verse 26?
:)
 
T

TCGreek

New Member
These days my order of salvation is thus: once a person is brought to repentance and faith in Christ. That's it!
 
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