ORIGINAL SIN---Exactly what is it according to CALVINISM?

Hi Wes:
Good point I don't think they know. I hope they prove me wrong.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

According to Book 2, Chapter 1 Section 8 of Calvin's Institutes,

Perhaps that will be a good defintion?

 

Also, I think that if we have original sin, by its nature it would not be readily apparent to us. If we have original sin that affects us in our totality, it would also affect our ability to reason which would keep us from seeing our original sin.

 

Why do babies die?

johnp.

 

I haven't been reading your comments in other threads, so I'm going to make an assumption. I'm going to assume that you don't believe that someone who has never accepted Christ is free from the power of sin.

That being said, Calvin is not saying that original sin still has power over the believer. It is not as if this original sin is some kind of "super-sin" that cannot be atoned for. What he is saying is that since we have all come from Adam, we all are guilty that Adam didn't just teach us how to sin, but instead passed down his sinful nature.

From what I've read of the Institutes, Calvin definitely knew that Christ paid the penalty for sin.

I'm not exactly sure, but my thought is that babies die because of sin. NOT the sin of the parents (although that could be a possibility) but because sin reigns in this world and that sin affects everything. Why can't I live to be as old as Mathusela?

 

Hi Nate;

Wasn't there sin in the world when Methuselah lived?
We all have to die because of sin being in the world. Adam and Eve were created in a sinless world and sin entered the world through them.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Hello NateT.

Why do babies die?

I'm not exactly sure, but my thought is that babies die because of sin. The wages of sin is death. If a child dies it must be due to that child being reckoned a sinner.
God regards the baby as having done nothing good or bad, RO 9:10 Not only that, but Rebekah's children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13 Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
It is our spiritual death that condemns us and it is the spiritual death that affects all conceived.
When God created man, he made him in the likeness of God. After the fall man was no longer made in God's likeness but in Adams. Gen 5:1-3. Dead in our sins...Ehp 2:1.
NOT the sin of the parents (although that could be a possibility) but because sin reigns in this world and that sin affects everything. Sin does affect everything but our days are not numbered by any man's actions but it is God, Job 1:21 ..."Naked I came from my mother's womb, and naked I will depart. The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised."
It is God that takes away. If God takes away then He does so on the basis that the one He takes is a sinner because the wages of sin is death.
Why can't I live to be as old as Mathusela? PS 90:10 The length of our days is seventy years--or eighty, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass, and we fly away..
Why would you want to?

johnp.

 

What's the problem Wes?
Tell you what, I'll give you a clue as to why babies die Wes. It as to do with original sin. It must have a basis in the fall because the wages of sin is death. The baby is not reckoned to have done good or bad so the the only reason the baby dies is because it is conceived dead in spirit which is sin. It is not a sin but is sin. All other sins stem from being dead to God.

Why do babies die Wes if you have another answer?

The Parable of the Sower is spoken to sinners how can it have anything to do with original sin? Expand on this please.

johnp.

 

What are you looking for? Are you looking for what the original sin was? How original sin affects us? A fairly good definition was provided in my first post. In fact, if you're asking Calvinists, I would think that would be THE definition since it was written by Calvin.

Original sin was that Adam sinned. Adam was the father of the human race, and so as the human race propagated, so did his sin. I'm not sure but I would imagine Calvin held to a traducianistic (sp?) view of generation. In other words, that the sould is created by the same act that creates the body. Namely from the union of sperm and egg. That is how original sin continues to exist today.

 

Wes.

A little more expanded if you don't mind.

It is a dead spirit. Adam caused this disconnect and passed it on because he was the mould from which we all sprang.
A dead spirit is one that is cut off from God's Spirit. It happened in the garden as man overreached himself, but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."
And die we did, in spirit, and a little later in the body.

johnp.

 

Hi JohnP

Completely wrong Not one word of it is scriptural as usual. Cain and Able both spoke with God And that was after the Garden. Cain was lost because he killed his brother and Able wasn't.

May Christ Shine His light On Us All;
Mike

 

ILUVLIGHT.

I speak to God and He speaks to me. What? Are you suggesting God cannot communicate with sinners? I ask you the question.
Abel was born again. Gen 4:4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
Abel He loved Cain He hated.
I said, Adam caused this disconnect and passed it on because he was the mould from which we all sprang.
The scriptures says;
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
Romans 5:15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

I said;
...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die.
You said;
Completely wrong Not one word of it is scriptural as usual.

Sorry I should have put chapter and verse by that. It's Gen 2:17.

johnp.

 

Hi JohnP;

I think that you have forgotten that Christ is God in the flesh and He spoke to every sinner he met. That fact alone proves you wrong about God speaking to sinners

What you quoted didn't back up your claim that man died spiritually.
This is what you were trying to Show;

But this is not what the scripture you quoted says. What you said is not scriptural.
Then in your next post you offer this as proof of spiritual death;

Not one word deals with the spirit of man dying because of Adam's sin.

What you overlook is that once we are saved we are suppose to be alive to Christ but dead to sin how ever we do commit enough of it don't you think?
So if we aren't able to respond to the gospel because of our depraved state while still a natural man. Then how can we sin once we have been made dead to sin? You see your idea of being dead spiritually is distorted. Certainly if we can sin once we are saved then we can choose to trust in Christ when we are spiritually dead. The Jailers asked Paul what they had to do in order to be saved.
Paul said;
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Belief always comes before Salvation.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike