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OSAS arguements compiled....
- Thread starter AAA
- Start date
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
AAA said:
If you believe that it God Who saves sinners, then how could it be anything but "once saved, always saved"? Jesus said, as recorded in John 6.37:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."
And if Christ's work on the cross was to save sinners, how could He be as Isaiah 53.11 says He is if even one saved sinner was then to be lost?
He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.
But of course such things should never lead us to complacency. We should never say, "Once saved always saved, so I'll live as I please - it won't make any difference".
Charles Meadows
New Member
As always "proof" does not come from one-liners. The picture we get when examining salvation as a whole, as it is presented in the Bible, is one of something which involves a complete transformation of the individual such the return to his/her previous state is impossible. This consistutes the only real defense of eternal security which can be supported.
If we say that a verse can prove eternal security then we would also be faced with the question of why verses like Heb 10:26 and Heb 6:4 cannot be said to "prove" salvation can be lost.
If we say that a verse can prove eternal security then we would also be faced with the question of why verses like Heb 10:26 and Heb 6:4 cannot be said to "prove" salvation can be lost.
One liners sometimes do the job: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Case closed on other means of salvation.
The same is true with eternal security in some Scriptures.
Besides, from the OP I am thinking this is not a debate on the matter, it is an attempt to compile information from those all in argreement.
Case closed on other means of salvation.
The same is true with eternal security in some Scriptures.
Besides, from the OP I am thinking this is not a debate on the matter, it is an attempt to compile information from those all in argreement.
2Co 5:17 So that if any one is in Christ, that one is a new creature; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Can one be a new creation then go back to the old creation?
Can one be a new creation then go back to the old creation?
Charles Meadiws wurtes:
"If we say that a verse can prove eternal security then we would also be faced with the question of why verses like Heb 10:26 and Heb 6:4 cannot be said to "prove" salvation can be lost."
Good point.
There is no verse that proves eternal security. To prove eternal security, it would have to explicitly say "A true christian cannot (or will not) stop trusting Christ". Scriptures used to support eternal security don't say that, but are only interpreted to mean that.
"If we say that a verse can prove eternal security then we would also be faced with the question of why verses like Heb 10:26 and Heb 6:4 cannot be said to "prove" salvation can be lost."
Good point.
There is no verse that proves eternal security. To prove eternal security, it would have to explicitly say "A true christian cannot (or will not) stop trusting Christ". Scriptures used to support eternal security don't say that, but are only interpreted to mean that.
drfuss .. did you read the previous posts? We aren't here to debate, just record scriptures. Obviously, those who do not accept OSAS would not need to post. They can start another thread where debate can go on until the cows come home.
:laugh: :jesus:
John 6:47-50
John 10:27-28
Romans 8:1; 14-17; 22-23; 35-39; 10:8-13
1 Corinthians 3:13-15; 12:12-13
1 Thessalonians 1:10
Ephesians 1:6-13
Jude 1:1
No debate! Just posting! OK?
:laugh: :jesus:
John 6:47-50
John 10:27-28
Romans 8:1; 14-17; 22-23; 35-39; 10:8-13
1 Corinthians 3:13-15; 12:12-13
1 Thessalonians 1:10
Ephesians 1:6-13
Jude 1:1
No debate! Just posting! OK?
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canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I favor the phrase "eternal security of the believer" over OSAS. That said;
John 10:27-29"(27) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. (29) My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." "I and the Father are One".
"My sheep"....(1)"hear My voice" (2) "they follow Me" (3) "I give eternal life to them" (4) "they shall never perish"
There is no qualification in these verses. Jesus's "sheep" will hear His voice, each and every one of them. Each and every one shall follow Him. Each and every one shall be given eternal life. Each and every one shall never perish.
Why? Not because of anything of themselves. They will never perish because of the work of Almighty God. (1) "no one shall snatch them out of My hand" (2) no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." (3) "My Father is greater than all." (4) "I and My Father are One".
The reason we have eternal security is because it is not up to us.
Salvation is a work of God from the initial conviction of Holy Spirit of the truth of Jesus Christ to the transformation of believers at the resurrection to live in the presence of God forever.
peace to you
raying:
John 10:27-29"(27) My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; (28) and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand. (29) My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." "I and the Father are One".
"My sheep"....(1)"hear My voice" (2) "they follow Me" (3) "I give eternal life to them" (4) "they shall never perish"
There is no qualification in these verses. Jesus's "sheep" will hear His voice, each and every one of them. Each and every one shall follow Him. Each and every one shall be given eternal life. Each and every one shall never perish.
Why? Not because of anything of themselves. They will never perish because of the work of Almighty God. (1) "no one shall snatch them out of My hand" (2) no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand." (3) "My Father is greater than all." (4) "I and My Father are One".
The reason we have eternal security is because it is not up to us.
Salvation is a work of God from the initial conviction of Holy Spirit of the truth of Jesus Christ to the transformation of believers at the resurrection to live in the presence of God forever.
peace to you
raying:Tom Butler
New Member
My favorite eternal security text is Romans 11:29 "For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance...."
Some may say this refers only to the Jews, but the principle remains applicable to Gentile believers as well.
Some may say this refers only to the Jews, but the principle remains applicable to Gentile believers as well.
I John 5:12-13
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
I love it! "That ye may KNOW!"
I use this one often with religious types who are hoping for the best. Salvation is something we can know!
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. 13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
I love it! "That ye may KNOW!"
I use this one often with religious types who are hoping for the best. Salvation is something we can know!
Lacy Evans
New Member
It's very hard to get around the very specific wording of this picture. Slavation (drinking) is seen as a one-time, permanent act that need not be repeated.
This picture similarly depicts a one-time, permanent, and non-repeatable act. (I say "non-repeatable," meaning not that they couldn't look at the serpent a second or third time, but that it was unnecessary and would do them no more good.)
This is a very telling text. When we are born, we are born eternal creatures. Even death of the body does not end our existence. (We'll all exist forever, somewhere.) When we are "born" the second time, spiritually, we are likewise eternal creatures. What else could this passage mean?
Lacy
Rex77 said:Eph 2
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
We are already there in God's eyes.
We are positionally, in Christ, sitting in heavenly places, for the saved to be unsaved again, Christ must be dislodged from heaven.
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Titus 3:3-7 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another. But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
It is very clear by this passage that if it was not by our "works of righteousness" and it was God who has "regenerated" us and "renewed" us in the Holy Ghost and "justified" us then surely there is nothing WE can do to annul the work of God.
It is very clear by this passage that if it was not by our "works of righteousness" and it was God who has "regenerated" us and "renewed" us in the Holy Ghost and "justified" us then surely there is nothing WE can do to annul the work of God.