(BobRyan)....
You dodged my question asking that you show some kind of reason in "what the other option would be" for us.
It is an exercise for the reader to seek the knowledge of the parable. By process of elimination one can clearly eliminate "saved then lost" since salvation is "
by grace through faith and NOT of yourself". The act of forgiving another to obtain salvation would be "
of yourself" and this would cause a contradiction so it must be rejected outright.
Always use all scriptures to test what you think the focus may be on. In this case the focus of "saved then lost" fails completely.
One "other option" (other than saved then lost) could be that those who do not forgive from the heart those who trespass against them will likewise not receive forgiveness and will suffer torment until it is settled.
There are differing lessons that we can extract from the parables. But we must be careful not to go beyond what is written and also not to contradict those scriptures that are very precise when speaking of salvation.
You will not find the words saved or faith in the parable, therefore we must not automatically conclude the parable is speaking about salvation. It could be, in one sense that the man declared his unregenerated heart by not forgiving the ten bucks when he had been forgiven millions. This would seem very unlikely for someone who would have experienced the love of God through Jesus Christ.
I believe you must take in the whole chapter to make a right judgment of it.
The man in the parable showed no sign of having been born-again which is what we called "saved". I believe it is agreed upon by most if not all born-again Christians that refusing to forgive another such a small debt would not be found amongst us. Anyone here have that kind of heart since being saved???
If the man was given a new heart (born-again-saved) as you claim, I can see no way (as I understand born of God from the scriptures) he would have taken another by the throat demanding ten bucks.
So you are left with seeking the lesson of the parable
without the possibility that it is warning against receiving a new heart (stoney one removed), becoming a new creature in Christ, having the gift of the Holy Spirit, receiving the love of God and then grabing another by the throat, demanding money be repaid and ending up in eternal hell.
You will find the words saved and faith (also "not of yourselves" ) in this scripture......"
by grace ye have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God".
If you let the scriptures just say as much as they say you will have no conflict with your eternal security being fully in the hands of God in Christ.
(BobRyan)...
You are now also dodging HP's responses saying that he agrees with Matt 18.
HP answered with.....
HP: What do you want me to say? I agree with BR that Matt18 is an example of forgiveness revoked. Is that what you are looking for?
My response as all can see was not a "dodge" but rather a follow up with....
(Steaver)...
What Bob was looking for was posters who have supported in the past his view of Matt 18 as debunking OSAS, meaning the man was saved and then became lost because he did not forgive another.
Have you posted to this affect in the past and do you agree with Bob's view of Matt 18 (the man was saved and then became lost because he did not forgive another) ?
HP resonded with.....
HP: Is this by chance of one of those questions DHK would call childish?:tonofbricks:
As all can see, this is a "I choose not to elaborate". One can see why.
As all can see, it is not I who "dodges" the questions.
(Page five and no posters found yet that agree with your view that the man in Matt 18 was saved then lost for not forgiving the ten bucks).
God Bless! :thumbs:
