-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
OSAS question? About repentance and stuff!! :0))
- Thread starter TaliOrlando
- Start date
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
TaliOrlando said:
1John 2:3-7 says that the one who CLAIMS to know Christ must walk as Christ walked OR they are lying.
This is in line with what 3 and 5 point Calvinists believe but 4 Point calvinists who argue as the OP does above about sinning all they want - living in rebellion - NOT walking as Christ walked and STILL being saved would have to reject the 1John 2:3-7 warning.
To suggest that I am the inventor of the OP or of the 4 Point Calvinist idea that dumps the Bible teaching on perseverance does not solve the problem.
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
1John 2
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.[/b]
4 The one who says, "" I have come to know Him,'' and [b]does not keep His commandments, is a liar[/b], and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word[/b], in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.[/b]
Rom 2
7 to those who [b]by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; [/b]
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and [b]do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil[/b], of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and [b]peace to everyone who does good[/b], to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Matt 7
16 ""You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 "" Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, [b]but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.[/b]
4 The one who says, "" I have come to know Him,'' and [b]does not keep His commandments, is a liar[/b], and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word[/b], in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.[/b]
Rom 2
7 to those who [b]by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; [/b]
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and [b]do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil[/b], of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and [b]peace to everyone who does good[/b], to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Matt 7
16 ""You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 ""So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 ""A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 "" Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 ""So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 "" Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, [b]but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
BobRyan said:
Yep, as a person who is saved is ALSO changed (2 cor 5:15)- they will now desire to what is pleasing to God where as before we were emenies and haters of God.
The tree illistration discribes the nature of a person. Only a person with a new nature given by God will produce good (godly) fruit and vise-versa
next...
Last edited by a moderator:
TaliOrlando
New Member
Hello Everyone!! Good Morning!! I read all through that answer and I thank you all however my question of why does God tell the Churches to repent in Revelation has not been answered. Can someone please tell me why?
Revelation 3
15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
Revelation 3
15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17You say, 'I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.' But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. 18I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see. 19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent 20Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. 21To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."
TaliOrlando
New Member
J. Jump said:
Thanks JJUMP!!! Also GOD BLESS!!!
TaliOrlando said:
You have to compare this "White Raiment" with the parable of the Wedding Garment:
Mt:22:11: And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment
The White Garment means the Righteousness of Christ and the Eyesalve means the Holy Spirit which enables you to discern your own nakedness...
Jn:16:8: And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment
2 Thessalonians 2:
10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Maybe I will tell you more about this Wedding Garment later today...
They are deceived, believing they are covered when they are not. They are naked. Walking around without the Righteousness of Christ. Just have an outward cover of "believing on Christ" with no inward change.
"Gold tried in the Fire" is an experience they know not. God puts us through fiery trials that our defects of character may be revealed to us and we have opportunity to correct them through the power of Christ. The "Cleansing of Sin" Process. This is the "Refining Process" described in Malachi chapter 4, which speaks about getting us ready for the second coming of Christ. Read carefully:
Malachi Chapter 4:
1: Behold, I will send my messenger and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2: But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifer of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
4: Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5: And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
God is working to prepare His Church for the second coming of Christ:
Eph:5:27: That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
But then you have the false professors who go around trying to convince the people that they need no change of character. They will tell you that the people need no refining process. They are fine just with throwing a false cover of "just believe" over them. Thus, the need in the Book of Revelation to point out their nakedness and to startle them out of their deceived state. Telling them that they need the White Raiment of Christ.
Rom:1:18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness
Rom:8:4: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rv:19:8: And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
Last edited by a moderator:
TaliOrlando said:
this again:BangHead:
Revelation 2 through 3 is Jesus Rebuking, correcting, and encouraging His Churches (those individuals who are part of His body - not visitors - but actual people who know Him).
The verse above is addressed to christians who need to repent, not to non-beleivers who want to know Christ. So because of this FACT, it should never be used out of that context to convert a non-believer to Christ. Jesus is letting HIS PEOPLE know that he in ever present for them and ready to forgive!
Rev 3:
1"To the angel of the church in Sardis write:
These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits[b]of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead. 2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. 4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
Jesus does not make idle threats. He can and he will remove those who had once been faithful, but turned their backs on Him.
So, OSAS minus Repentance =:tonofbricks:
Last edited by a moderator:
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
BobRyan: //Did you read the OP??//
yes, did you read my response?
BobRyan: //Are you familiar with the 4 Point Calvinist
position that drops perseverance and argues for
exactly what the OP is questioning?//
No, I don't know about 4-point Calvinist position.
Nor am I a free-willer. When you get saved by Jesus
you really don't have free will to LEAVE.
Jesus saves - forever.
The whole works discussion should be:
How can I serve God better?
See also the discussion(s) at:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36610
yes, did you read my response?
BobRyan: //Are you familiar with the 4 Point Calvinist
position that drops perseverance and argues for
exactly what the OP is questioning?//
No, I don't know about 4-point Calvinist position.
Nor am I a free-willer. When you get saved by Jesus
you really don't have free will to LEAVE.
Jesus saves - forever.
The whole works discussion should be:
How can I serve God better?
See also the discussion(s) at:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36610
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Tazman said:
Repentance is a part of OSAS, I still can't find anybody
in the six OSAS topics active in this Forum that said
you can be OSAS without repenting (if you have a chance).
Isn't God strong enough to save those who oops
and don't get a chance to repent? Or is the RCC right?
TaliOrlando: //how can they state that we dont have
to repent and stuff. I am a little confused and you know.. //
I have yet to examine what 'they' are saying.
Jesus Saves. Jesus does Scantification Salvation.
But to save us Jesus might need a bit of repentance.
TaliOrlando: //how can they state that we dont have
to repent and stuff. I am a little confused and you know.. //
I have yet to examine what 'they' are saying.
Jesus Saves. Jesus does Scantification Salvation.
But to save us Jesus might need a bit of repentance.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Revelation 3:5 (KJV1611 Edition):
Hee that ouercommeth,
the same shalbe clothed in white raiment,
and I will not blot out his name out
of the booke of life, but I will confesse
his name before my Father, and before his Angels.
has an argument (logical)
1. If he overcomes,
then I will NOT blot out his name out of the book of life
The truth of this argument isn't necessarily
the truth of the following argument (which needs
to be proved seperately):
2. If he overcomes NOT,
then I will blot out his name out of the book of life
anybody who feels like it is welcome to prove
argument (logical) #2 from the scripture.
Hee that ouercommeth,
the same shalbe clothed in white raiment,
and I will not blot out his name out
of the booke of life, but I will confesse
his name before my Father, and before his Angels.
has an argument (logical)
1. If he overcomes,
then I will NOT blot out his name out of the book of life
The truth of this argument isn't necessarily
the truth of the following argument (which needs
to be proved seperately):
2. If he overcomes NOT,
then I will blot out his name out of the book of life
anybody who feels like it is welcome to prove
argument (logical) #2 from the scripture.
Ed Edwards said:
Do you think God does not have a measuring Rod?
If we die without having repented, then It would be a righteous Judgement of God
If we die and had repented, then It would be a righteous Judgement of God
both has his love and mercy in it because he is not an unjust God. Look at the old testament, God was very patient hoping for His people to change and some did and some didn't.
Is it not true that all died on an account of two or three witnesses?