Our church and Jesus Dolls

Tim???

What in "Tarnation" is a Jesus doll????

 

Quote:
What in "Tarnation" is a Jesus doll????

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A mexican doll. It is pronounced Hesu.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Seldom has a post title got my attention so quickly!

Tim, I think you are maybe in for a rough ride...

Do the dolls talk? If so, which version? :tongue3:

BTW, google would not define tarnation for me...

 

Sounds good, Tim, except the Jesus doll has long hair... :laugh:

 

the doll sort of looks like Val Kilmer from The Saint.

Besides it's caucasian...

I could care less about the controversy, I just find it humorous...

 

Sooooooooo ----- if Blackbird is "reading" his Illinois buddy correctly --- Jesus is a "Hippie"

 

I don't think a Jesus doll is blasphemy or a natitivity for that matter. But have you ever watched little boys play? They turn everything into weapons. I can just see them using Jesus as a torpedo or spear or banging sister over the head with it. Little girls will probably have Him marrying Barbie. Maybe Mom and Dad should only use the doll for Bible study. Just some thoughts. :1_grouphug:

 

Tim, for those who oppose it, I would like to know what they are doing to reach children. I don't see it as a "graven image" as the intent is not to worship the doll itself. I think it's a great idea that should go over well with children.

Of course the strict "fundies" (modern definition) will say you don't need such things...you should be handing out AV1611's and sermon notes from Spurgeon. The Holy Spirit will do the rest.

 

Comparing what other people do to scripture is unnecessary as scripture trumps the deeds of men. Even the righteousness that men do, is like filthy rags to a righteous God. However, to address your question, this person (who is opposed to graven images of the Godhead made out of plastic) sponsors a Compassion International child, hosts foster children and hosts exchange students in an attempt to reach children. For the Compassion child we interact via snail mail and try to edify a young Christian sister living in less than ideal circumstances (though we suspect she lifts us up more than we do her) For the foster kids, rather than give them the Word of God via plastic art, we give them the Word of God through the oral reading of scripture. The exchange students attend church with us and we witness to them as best we know how.

The expression "graven image" has nothing to do with worship. A barbie doll is a graven image of a bimbo, a Jesus doll is a graven image of a Saviour. Thus, what we are discussing here are, in fact, graven images. As I have stated on the nativity thread, the scripture that's most applicable in this instance, to me at least, is not Exodus 20 but Acts 17. What the plastic and ceramic Jesus promoters need to come up with, is an argument that demonstrates why we, as the offspring of God, should think that the Godhead is like gold, silver, or stone graven by art and man's device. It's man's device that has created these works of art and just as the root of the nativity scenes are not through Christian men, neither are these dolls.

"Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." - Acts 17:29​

 

Tim, the dolls are not my cup of tea, but they might just open some doors to your ministry. They can't be any different to the child evangelists that use puppets on "stage".

Go with it, mate. Get every advantage you can take to minister the word.

Cheers,

Jim

 

It's evident you don't know what a "graven image" is...especially if you feel a barbie doll is one. Here's a little help from www.freedictionary.com ...

Noun1.graven image - a material effigy that is worshipped as a god; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god"

 

I've never heard of a Jesus doll but as a witnessing tool, why not? Your efforts are appreciated, tinytim ...

 

I can't say I'm familiar with freedictionary.com. Here's definitions from a dictionary I'm a bit more familiar with:


---
GRAVE, v.t. pret. graved; pp. graven or graved. [Gr. to write; originally all writing was graving; Eng. to scrape.]

1. To carve or cut letters or figures on stone or other hard substance, with a chisel or edged tool; to engrave. [The latter word is now more generally used.]

Thou shalt take two onyx-stones and grave on them the names of the children of Israel. Ex.28.

2. To carve; to form or shape by cutting with a chisel; as, to grave an image.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. Ex.20.

(Source: Webster's 1828)

IM'AGE, n. [L. imago.]

1. A representation or similitude of any person or thing, formed of a material substance; as an image wrought out of stone, wood or wax.

(Source: Webster's 1828)

Thus, I would say that a graven image is a representation of a person or thing that has been carved or cut to form the shape of the desire image. Worshipping the image does not a graven image make by this definition and plastic Jesus dolls qualify as a graven image.

 

If this be the case, then God commanded for man to make "graven images" to put on top of the Ark of the Covenant...a direct contradiction NOT to make graven images! Context rules!

Isa 44:10 Who fashions a god, or molds a graven image, that is profitable for nothing?

 

No, no. The graven image thing is a side issue and a deeper discussion not wholly germain to Jesus dolls and Nativity scenes. The scripture that I'm standing on, relative ot this issue, is Acts 17:29. Make an argument for why we should think that the persons of the Godhead should be graven by art and man's device and I will take no issue with Jesus dolls and nativity Jesus babies

That's good of you to say. Regardless of our differences, which are many, you have a very charitable spirit and I enjoy reasoning with you.

 

Even if it is OK to have dolls, what makes anyone think it is OK to give impressionable children a doll representing God? If you can convince yourself that you don't worship the doll, thats great. But when you give the doll to a five year old and say 'this is Jesus, Jesus is God', what does that say to him? Given the obvious human propensity for worship of images, it is just a really bad idea alltogether. Baptists ought to know better.