P.O.D. GUITARIST IS REPLACED.

Once again, David Clown gets it wrong. POD's not a Christian band. If this guy's so hard up for an argument that he has to use a non-Christian band to try to condemn CCM, that's a good sign that he didn't have a case to begin with.

[ March 24, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Mike McK ]

 

I suggest everyone read MTV's article. It's sad when a Christian can't write a more unbiased article then an outfit like MTV. Especially gotta like Cloud's little comment at the end.

BTW, any fan of their music already knew that POD liked to party, they have a song called Rock The Party. Also as a fan of the band, I must say that I'm kinda happy about this. I always thought Marcos was the weakest player in the band. We'll see how this new guys is. I've heard one of Living Sacrifice's songs, and the guitarist seems decent. Interesting note, I believe that when POD was first getting started they were opening for Living Sacrifice. Does anyone here listen to Living Sacrifice?

 

It only took about five minutes on the web to find out whose info is correct here.

"Their independent releases, Snuff The Punk, Brown, and Live, developed their highly aggressive fusion of metal, hardcore and hip-hop, although the band's born-again Christian faith remained central to their music." This is a quote from VH1. com

"While they play around with the infectious grooves of reggae and Latin music and the heavy deliverance of hip-hop and rock, San Diego's hard rock four-piece P.O.D. defined a universal message. They're born-again Christians and such a thing is central in their music. They're not entirely classified as a Christian band though. Let that be known." This quote is from allmusic.com

If you look at the descriptions for POD on a search, you will find the sites describing them as "christian".

I have to admit, after viewing their pictures, I'd have a hard time agreeing that they were christian, too. I think we have agreed on something, Mike.

But David Cloud seems to have it right, once again.

 

There's a world of difference between expressing a Christian world view and being a Christian band.

A good example is Buddy and Julie Miller.

It's common knowledge that they're Christians and that some of their songs (particularly Julie's) reflect their Christian world view but they're not Christian artists.

Actually, they're not classified as a Christian band at all, except in the minds of those who are ignorant of their music.

That may be, but the issue isn't how others describe them, it's how they describe themselves and they've never considered themselves a Christian band.

Just as I would have serious doubts about someone who would judge someone's walk with Christ based on their appearance.

We agree on nothing. I've never disapraged their walk with Christ, certainly over nothing as petty as their appearance.

I know no more about you than I do about them so I seeno less reason to belive that they're Christians than I do to believe that you are.

He's a bitter, petty, hateful little lying creep.

 

TOB, we've had this discussion before. POD has all Christian members, however it is not a Christian band. Kinda like we have a auto repair shop in town that has all Christian mechanics. However, that doesn't make it a Christian auto shop.

They don't WANT to be known as a Christian band. Why? Because it would immediately throw up barriers. People think "Christian" and immediatly stop listening with an open mind. If you really want to know about POD, I believe we have something like a 13 page post floating around, do a search for it.

 

I was told on another board that POD were Rastas, although he never said why he believed this. After we all stopped laughing, we explained what Rastafarianism believes but he didn't care, in his mind, they were Rastas.

Save your breath, Jonathan.

These guys have decided that they need a new scapegoat to condemn and it looks like POD gets burned at the stake next.

It doesn't matter that they're not a Christian band, the Great and Powerful David Clown has declared that they are so now his followers will drink the Kool Aide and believe that they're a Christian band.

 

Cloud's ultimate point is that it's the music itself that is "unchristian", (and always leads away from Christ) so saying that the group is not Christian only goes along with what he is trying to say anyway.
He may "have it right" about many performers being worldly, but he has it wrong once again if he thinks this is another proof that only classical/traditional is good.

 

No it doesn't. First of all, he specifically refers to them as a Christian rock band, which they're not.

Their music, by it's very nature is non-Christian but to say "unChristian", carries with it the implication of being anti-Christian and it's not. Clearly some of it mirrors Christian teaching.

Second, in spite of what the voices in his head are telling him, he hasn't shown that the music always leads people away from Christ.

Third, it's illogical (or, more likely, disingenuous) to try to use a mainstream band to condemn CCM.

 

Well, of course, to Cloud, the music is "unchristian" and "anti-Christian", whether or not some of it "mirrors Christian teaching" (they would claim the music contradicts the message then)
I always thought POD was a specifically Christian group as well. Isn't "Payable on Death" a reference to Christ? (plus someone mentioned them opening for a Christian group). Even if they have crossed over, they are still on the fringes of Christianity, and that is enough for the critics to react against, so their classification as "Christian" or "secular" is irrelevant to them. Cloud and the others are even more against Christians playing secular music, which they just see as building their case of the style of music being worldly and take as the proof that it leads to a falling away.

 

great. just what we need, more high profile christian hypocrites. this whole debacle has satan's fingerprints all over it, imo.

 

Su Wei

I checked out the MTV website and it seems he was kicked out for his association with other secular bands. Note what Curial said,

Curiel, who has produced and remixed songs for the Nappy Roots and others, said he believes his former band would not have been so adamant against his side project if its other members were from Christian bands. The group, called the Accident Experiment, features two members of fellow San Diego band Sprung Monkey and a singer from Seattle.

He also noted religious belief differances. Could it be Curiel was the problem and not POD? I am not a fan of POD primarily because I can't stand their music I don't know about their spiriual life but I am always suspicios of a supposed Christian making such statements to a secular source and is a violation of Matthew 18. He sounds like he is mad about getting fired.

David Cloud is also well known for misrepresenting people and slander. I have many problems with the state of CCM as do some in that industry but his article on POD adds nothing to the debate.

 

If they have no intention of being a christian group, why do they use, as part of their name/logo, a symbol they recognize and sell as the Trinity?

 

We agree that they are not a christian band. Very remote. Very little. But an agreement, nonetheless

Thanks, Mike. You are once again showing your christian love toward me. If I were unsaved, I'd love to get the Gospel from you. You can do better than that.

 

[/QUOTE]He's a bitter, petty, hateful little lying creep.[/QUOTE]

From what I read in your posts, it seems you have something against David Cloud...why all this hatred?

 

Su Wei, I'm not sure that he is being honest when he says he doesn't want to be a hypocrite anymore, when he is making this confession to MTV instead of his church. I am not defending P.O.D. in that I do not know the facts and their style of music I find repulsive.

 

I don't hate the man, I just think he's a jerk who will use any petty little excuse he can find to condemn somebody else just to prop himself up.

 

No. I said that they weren't a Christian band, "Christian band" being a marketing category.

You disparaged their walk with Christ based on, among other things, something as petty as the way they look.

The two are in no way the same.

What did I say that wasn't true?