Passion Salvations

[C.S. Murphy]

Are the salvations occuring after viewing the passion valid? I read recently where a baptist businessman paid for the seniors at the local highschool to see the passion. After the film an invitation was given and I think about 90 students accepted Christ as their saviour. With so much deception in this movie is it possible that these conversions are real. Ofcourse the film saved nobody but it apparently made an impact in their life. What are your thoughts?
Murph

 

[Debby in Philly]

Assuming what was said after the film but before the invitaion was a simple but correct presentation of the Gospel, then yes, why not? In that case, all the film did was give them a reason to come together and hear the Gospel preached, and give them something to focus the attention of the listeners on Christ's sacrifice.

 

[donnA]

If the gospel from scripture was correctly presented then why not, thats what the gospel is for. But you'd have to get it from someone there to give truth from scripture, we as believers understand whats going on in the movie, but an unbeliever may not understanding anything in it, they have no reason too. The movie is not responsible, the biblical gospel presented is. The movie may be big and showy, but it says nothing about the need of repentance, you need a real bible and someone who knows the truth for that.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

That's true Donna, while the film gives a broad overview of the situation such as when the scriptures are printed and in the scenes where Jesus looks back into His memories such as the last supper scene it doesn't give the gospel invitation nor the need for repentance or a gospel invitation. You are also correct to say that believers understand because with the knowledge I brought to the film I was able to see things that helped me by visualizing part of His suffering but if I came with nothing i might not have saw it.
Murph

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
With so much deception in this movie is it possible that these conversions are real. Ofcourse the film saved nobody but it apparently made an impact in their life. What are your thoughts?
Murph

There's no such thing as a perfect witness, save the Holy Spirit Himself. Not to pat myself on the back, but I've brought people to Christ, and my witness is far, far, FAR from perfect. It's amazing that the Holy Spirit can use even an imperfect sinner like the likes of me to work in the life of another. Thankfully, the Holy SPirit is not limited to me, or anyone else, nor to anyone's writing, nor to anyone's music, nor to anyone's film. There are certainly some scriptural issues that people have with the Passion. But likewise is it with the Ten Commandments, Prince of Egypt, King of Kings, Greatest Story Ever Told, Jesus of Nazareth, Moses the Lawgiver, Sampson and Delilah, and the recent made-for-tv films Jesus and Judas. I don't hold anything up to the level of scripture except for scripture itself. Movies, music, books, and words never come close. I think we are the ones who often do the most damage by elevating them to that level, What's our excuse? We often say "well, the filmmaker, he did it first". Sounds a lot like what Adam said about Eve and the fruit, don't ya think?

That being said, I think the Passion, Ten Commandments, Prince of Egypt, King of Kings, Greatest Story Ever Told, Jesus of Nazareth, Moses the Lawgiver, and Sampson and Delilah are good films, worthy of viewing, and I highly recommend them, warts and all. People have, an will continue to be moves by the Holy Spirit. Maybe it will be because of something they saw in a movie, maybe it will be because of something else.

 

[Deacon]

At the leadership meeting last evening we were told of twelve people who became believers during the 8 (or so) weeks we presented sermons and weekly Growth Group seminars relating to questions that people might have after viewing the Passion movie.

These were not raising-the-hand type "salvations" but heartfelt turnings to God. A few were even baptized yesterday.

Our Passion series emphisis is over now, (See it at http://www.passionchrist.com).

Now we are preaching from the Word of God in Proverbs. Time to disciple them.

Rob

 

[donnA]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
With so much deception in this movie is it possible that these conversions are real. Ofcourse the film saved nobody but it apparently made an impact in their life. What are your thoughts?
Murph

There's no such thing as a perfect witness, save the Holy Spirit Himself. Not to pat myself on the back, but I've brought people to Christ, and my witness is far, far, FAR from perfect. It's amazing that the Holy Spirit can use even an imperfect sinner like the likes of me to work in the life of another. Thankfully, the Holy SPirit is not limited to me, or anyone else, nor to anyone's writing, nor to anyone's music, nor to anyone's film. There are certainly some scriptural issues that people have with the Passion. But likewise is it with the Ten Commandments, Prince of Egypt, King of Kings, Greatest Story Ever Told, Jesus of Nazareth, Moses the Lawgiver, Sampson and Delilah, and the recent made-for-tv films Jesus and Judas. I don't hold anything up to the level of scripture except for scripture itself. Movies, music, books, and words never come close. I think we are the ones who often do the most damage by elevating them to that level, What's our excuse? We often say "well, the filmmaker, he did it first". Sounds a lot like what Adam said about Eve and the fruit, don't ya think?

That being said, I think the Passion, Ten Commandments, Prince of Egypt, King of Kings, Greatest Story Ever Told, Jesus of Nazareth, Moses the Lawgiver, and Sampson and Delilah are good films, worthy of viewing, and I highly recommend them, warts and all. People have, an will continue to be moves by the Holy Spirit. Maybe it will be because of something they saw in a movie, maybe it will be because of something else. </font>[/QUOTE]Not sure the Holy Spirit uses lies about the gospels to save anyone. After all it didn't work out well in the garden of Eden. And as the garden of Eden shows us, untruth mixed scripture comes from satan.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by donnA:
Not sure the Holy Spirit uses lies about the gospels to save anyone.

No more so or less so in the Passion that than any other movie I mentioned. I met a person who came to the Lord after watching the movie. I also know two people who came to the Lord after working on the stage play "Jesus Christ Superstar". Go figure. Heck, I know of at least one person who came to the Lord after watching Veggietales (I'd hardly call Veggietales a "true" Gospel account, but I'd be wrong to say they don't have spiritual value). I could either analyze it 'till I'm blue in the face, or simply accept it and thank God for their salvation.

 

[MalkyEL]

donnA wrote:
Not sure the Holy Spirit uses lies about the gospels to save anyone. After all it didn't work out well in the garden of Eden. And as the garden of Eden shows us, untruth mixed scripture comes from satan.

MalkyEL:
Excellent point. God, in His Sovereignty, draws His kids to Himself in many ways. The question remains, does this mean we are to use unrighteous means to "help" Him? The Gospel has not failed, man has.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Good points by donnA and MalkyEL.

God CAN use anything to spark interest in the gospel. That does not however mean that we should adopt unbiblical methods of pragmatic evangelism. Once that starts we can do ANYTHING in order to see a profession of faith.

Some are tired of hearing this story, but I knew a guy in college who made a profession of faith after sleeping with a Christian girl who said that was her way to witness.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Christ4Kildare:
Some are tired of hearing this story, but I knew a guy in college who made a profession of faith after sleeping with a Christian girl who said that was her way to witness.

Yes I for one am tired of hearing it. The last time you used it it was in keeping with the question of the thread, this time it is not. I will add the same for the comments of Donna and Malky. The thread is asking the question are the conversions that have occured after people viewed the film real. If anyone wishes to start yet another negative thread about this film or add more of the same to one of the threads already going please do so but I respectfully ask that this thread return to it's intended question. It seems that it is much easier just to stand back and yell than to quietly discuss a topic.
Murph

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Murph,

My point was to show the extremes to which pragmatic evangelism can be carried. Certainly some will be saved after having their interest sparked my the movie. My point was "does that make it right?"

Please note that I did not "stand back and yell" but brought up the "on topic" concept of pragmatic evangelism.

Of course it is more than possible some some of these professions are genuine. We will never know until we get to heaven if any salvation professions made by any means are real or not, will we?

I want to publically apologise if I misread the intent of the first post. I was under the impression that you were implying that it must be right, in spite of the problems, if people are getting saved,

Roger

[ April 19, 2004, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Christ4Kildare ]

 

[donnA]

Are the salvations occuring after viewing the passion valid?

I will add the same for the comments of Donna and Malky.

If the gospel from scripture was correctly presented then why not, thats what the gospel is for. But you'd have to get it from someone there to give truth from scripture, we as believers understand whats going on in the movie, but an unbeliever may not understanding anything in it, they have no reason too. The movie is not responsible, the biblical gospel presented is. The movie may be big and showy, but it says nothing about the need of repentance, you need a real bible and someone who knows the truth for that.


Not sure the Holy Spirit uses lies about the gospels to save anyone. After all it didn't work out well in the garden of Eden. And as the garden of Eden shows us, untruth mixed scripture comes from satan.

As far as I can see I have worked on answering the question based on truth of scripture. You just didn't like the answer.

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by donnA:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Not sure the Holy Spirit uses lies about the gospels to save anyone. After all it didn't work out well in the garden of Eden. And as the garden of Eden shows us, untruth mixed scripture comes from satan.

As far as I can see I have worked on answering the question based on truth of scripture. You just didn't like the answer. </font>[/QUOTE]No I didn't just not like the answer, I actually didn't like the tone of the reply nor the fact that two other posters gave your reply an amen. I stand by my opinion that you took the low road in simply standing back and yelling at the film. Your quote about the lies struck me as unnecessary and out of place in this discussion. Funny to me how that I have had almost no complaints from posters I would consider conservatives in the many months I have moderated this forum until I decided to share my views on this film. Now my moderation seems to be questioned and my integrity has been thrown out the window. Well I have always said that there are some places it is best that you were known to have been thrown out of.
Murph

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I am with Roger on this issue against pragmatic evangelism.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[C.S. Murphy]

Originally posted by Christ4Kildare:

I want to publically apologise if I misread the intent of the first post. I was under the impression that you were implying that it must be right, in spite of the problems, if people are getting saved,

Roger

No apology necessary, no I was not implying anything in the opening just asking opinion. Of course as you state above people are being saved. I am thankful that many are being saved I suppose we can continue to argue over the rightness of it while God continues to save, that is fine with me.
Murph

 

[Glory Bound]

Originally posted by C.S. Murphy:
Are the salvations occuring after viewing the passion valid? I read recently where a baptist businessman paid for the seniors at the local highschool to see the passion. After the film an invitation was given and I think about 90 students accepted Christ as their saviour. With so much deception in this movie is it possible that these conversions are real. Ofcourse the film saved nobody but it apparently made an impact in their life. What are your thoughts?
Murph

I agree with others who indicated that the conversions are most likely valid as long as knowledgeable people explained the real reason Jesus died on that cross.

However it's not a stretch to propose that because of the results, the movie is somehow justified. That is certainly one way to read the OP quoted above. A lot of people certainly do justify the movie by salvation claims.

The events of September 11, 2001 also caused a lot of people to go back to church, turn their lives over to Christ, and think seriously about their relationship with God.

The validity of those decisions are held to the same criteria as all others - that the message was communicated clearly and the individual sincerely repented to follow Christ.