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Featured Pastor pledging not to change beliefs

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by rlvaughn, Feb 15, 2017.

  1. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Over at SBC Today, Kyle Gulledge posted a thread called "Helps for the Pastor Search Committee." The helps include a "pledge statement" in which the prospective pastor says he is not a Calvinist and pledges if he ever becomes a Calvinist he will resign and move on. I realize that the questionnaire is about Calvinism and therefore most of the people there wanted to discuss Calvinism. But I would like to discuss the general principle of making a pledge statement, something like “With integrity of heart, I have received the doctrinal statement of this church and statements of explanation by the Pastor Search Committee, and I pledge that if my theology ever changes to __________, I will share with the Staff and Deacons my new beliefs and work with them in transitioning to a new place of ministry that is more in line with my new theological stance.”

    Do you think a "pledge statement" of this sort is a good idea? Would you sign one?

    If you agree, to what extent should this principle of a pledge statement apply to major changes in belief? What if a preacher changes an ecclesiological belief (e.g. from strict communion to open communion, or vice versa) or an eschatological belief (e.g. from amillennial to premillennial, or vice versa)?

    Would you stand behind his keeping the principle of the integrity of the pledge even if it something our believe he should change and teach the church to change? (E.g. the church practices segregation and the pastor changes to teach it is "a house of prayer for all people).

    What if the pastor has been there 20 years before he changes, as opposed to say 2 years?

    Thanks.
     
    #1 rlvaughn, Feb 15, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2017
  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I believe that when a pastor's or a church's faith becomes defined by their soteriological position (on either side of the debate) then they are pretty much done with the gospel ministry.
     
  3. exscentric

    exscentric Well-Known Member
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    I was asked verbally during my interview to teach if I would leave quietly if I ever came into disagreement with policy or doctrine. I agreed. A time came when they changed a long standing policy, I left. I had no problem accepting the agreement nor leaving.

    As to the need of such a statement relating to Calvinism, there have been (by hear say) numerous churches, and two of personal knowledge where a Calvinist came to a church, split the church over Calvinism. In one case he retained the majority and with them came the building/property and in the other case he retained the majority of people but found the property was in one deacons name so he did not retain the property.

    If a church feels the need for such protection I feel they should and I would not have a problem signing such an agreement. From the ethics of some I would not expect a Calvinist to not sign the statement knowing ... Not condemning anyone! The ones I know of both came to the church knowing they were going to cause problems with their doctrine. I doubt signing such a statement would have bothered either of them. I might add that these were not men from the general circles that are on this board.
     
  4. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    I think that might be a bit harsh.

    What about their position on baptism? I suspect that very, very few Baptist churches would keep a minister who baptized infants.
     
  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Most have statements of faith and bylaws that define church practice. I just get tired of the elevation of divisive doctrine. I don't know where my pastor stands on Calvinistic doctrine (in terms of soterilogy), and I don't really care. If he replaced Scripture with teaching Calvinism or anti-Calvinism then I would be concerned.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I believe consideration of such a pledge is naive at best if the context of the article in the op is not also considered which is:

    The purpose in asking for such a pledge is defined as protection of the church's doctrine. Should potential pastors make a pledge to protect the church's doctrine?
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Good point. I understand your comments, RevM, and I agree. But there are also other issues under the surface.

    Should pastors make a pledge to protect the doctrine of the local church or the doctrine of God? They should be the same but far too often they are not.

    What is the role of a pastor when it comes to doctrine? Does the pastor preach what the congregation is inclined to hear, or does the pastor preach what he believes God as inclined him to preach? Is the pastor responsible for the doctrine taught in the local church, or is the doctrine taught dictated by the congregation?

    I think that there are more issues here than Calvinism vs. Non-Calvinism. One of my favorite pastors held a Calvinistic position on one thing, and when he taught this one thing he always said "this is what Scripture says, this is what I believe and why, and this is what others believe and why". If men are careful not to exceed biblical authority in their preaching then this does not have to be an issue. But men are men, so it is.

    I have seen pastors voted out because they taught that "judge not" does not mean we refrain from dealing with sin among the church and practicing church discipline. I've seen pastors removed for a comment (literally one comment) that smoking was not necessarily a biblical disqualification for the position of deacon. I've see a couple removed for their stance on divorce and remarriage (one taught against divorce, period; the other that he believed the prohibition in Timothy was against polygamy but would abide by the bylaws concerning deacons). And I'm sure others here have similar stories.

    I've seen churches ruined by well meaning preachers and preachers ruined by well meaning congregations.
     
  8. StefanM

    StefanM Well-Known Member
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    Some of JonC comments remind me of the Lutheran debates over its doctrinal standards. Some say they believe them BECAUSE they are biblical, while others say they believe them IN SO FAR AS they are biblical or untrue.

    IMO, both cause problems. One creates a defacto canonization of the doctrinal standards and the other allows a person to reject any point by claiming it is unbiblical or untrue.
     
  9. Baptist Brother

    Baptist Brother Active Member

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    Such a pledge is juvenile, IMO.

    A pastor should be judged by everything as a whole, not just one doctrine (unless it's especially egregious and reflects rebellion or a broader error) . And, if he's unfit to be pastor, why expect him to keep his pledge? Also, such a pledge could push a pastor to act in bad faith, to conceal a change of heart.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    RevMitchell, are you focusing on the context of Calvinism, or that many Southern Baptist lay people are uneducated in the doctrines of their church, or maybe something else?

    Thanks.
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    ummm I think you need to reread the quote I gave.
     
  12. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I did read it. If it had helped, I wouldn't have asked. JonC got it, but I didn't. Maybe you don't want to help those of us who are a little slower?
     
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Well my concern with your question is that no where in my post did I say "many Southern Baptist lay people are uneducated in the doctrines of their church" so it appears that you misunderstood something.
     
  14. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    I don't doubt I have misunderstood something. You are free to answer with what you mean.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Ok Im not sure where we are missing each other here I just explained what I mean.
     
  16. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    From the Spurgeon archive administered by Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary:

    "Ministers Sailing under False Colours" February 1870 Sword and Trowel
     
  17. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Interesting quote, Jerome. Thanks. Goes to show that ministers flying under false pretenses is nothing new. I've heard of several cases in which a preacher who holds 4 or 5 points of Calvinism but withholds the information from the prospective church until he can be called and then begin to indoctrinate the flock to his viewpoint. This is a current concern of many in the Southern Baptist Convention because of the popular growth of Calvinism, and is the reason why groups like Connect 316 are promoting ideas like the questionnaire and pledge statement. While the Calvinistic concern is more recent, I have seen and known of preachers lacking integrity in view of a call for as long as I have been in the ministry. Here are a few examples:

    A preacher wants to be a pastor, so he pretends to be in agreement with a church he wants in order to get the call. This preacher is willing to compromise and pretty much preach what the church wants to hear. He doesn't cause controversy in the church with his doctrine, but if he stays long enough the church's convictions dry up, because the pastor doesn't preach with conviction.

    A preacher wants to pastor a church that is not the same affiliation as he is (e.g. SBC, ABCUSA, BBFI, IFB), so he pretends their affiliation does not matter to him -- until he is there long enough to (try to) convince a majority to change their affiliation. He should have been upfront with his views on affiliation and let the chips fall where they may.

    A preacher wants to pastor a church and agrees to all the non-doctrinal things brought forward by the church -- parsonage, salary, insurance, expectation etc. -- but almost immediately shows he really didn't like that and tries to get them to change everything. (Not talking about negotiations that might take place over an extended period of service.)

    These are a few I have seen. There is another kind of change that is not the result of being unethical. This is a pastor whose views were exactly what he said they were, but who changes some belief or point of view through studying the Bible. These don't usually hatch out shortly after a preacher gets to a church -- as with those who went went an agenda -- but develop over a long period of time and study. Some people think it is a matter of integrity for this preacher to step down.

    We might careful how we say it, but this latter situation we may tend to judge differently according to whether it is a minister changing to lead a church away from the truth of the Bible or a minister changing to lead a church closer to the truth of the Bible.
     
  18. Baptist Brother

    Baptist Brother Active Member

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    A young man grows up in a problematic denomination and wants to become a preacher. He becomes a preacher in the denomination he was raised in, but as he matures he learns the errors of the denomination he was raise in. So, what does he do? Keep quiet? Resign? Try to change the church?

    Resign is the only honest thing to do, but that's giving up possibly a nice job.
     
  19. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    Sounds like a good church to stay away from
     
  20. JohnDeereFan

    JohnDeereFan Well-Known Member
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    An ironic statement, given that Baptists, historically, have held to a Reformed view
     
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