Paul & Barnabas

[tomana]

It is taught by some or many, that there were only Twelve apostles plus Paul (which makes sense to me since it was Jesus and the Twelve and so, since Paul said he was a special exception, I can see how this could be symbolic for the Church. But, scripture also says the following :

Act 14:14
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes

It clearly seems to state that both Barnabas and Paul were apostles. How can that be, if there were only Thirteen apostles in the early Church ?

 

[AresMan]

It is taught by some or many, that there were only Twelve apostles plus Paul (which makes sense to me since it was Jesus and the Twelve and so, since Paul said he was a special exception, I can see how this could be symbolic for the Church. But, scripture also says the following :

Act 14:14
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes

It clearly seems to state that both Barnabas and Paul were apostles. How can that be, if there were only Thirteen apostles in the early Church ?

I believe there are different shades of meaning to apostle. Technically, an apostle is one sent by Christ. When we think of an official apostolic office, we think of one who was sent directly by the risen person of Christ. Paul was converted on the road to Damascus and was given his commission by the manifestation of Christ, but Paul and Barnabas were sent for their missionary journeys by the Holy Spirit.

 

[tomana]

I believe there are different shades of meaning to apostle. Technically, an apostle is one sent by Christ. When we think of an official apostolic office, we think of one who was sent directly by the risen person of Christ. Paul was converted on the road to Damascus and was given his commission by the manifestation of Christ, but Paul and Barnabas were sent for their missionary journeys by the Holy Spirit.

Is not Jesus and the Holy Spirit One in the same (Father, Son, Spirit)? To be sent out by Jesus is to be sent out by the Holy Spirit ... is this not so?

 

[AresMan]

Is not Jesus and the Holy Spirit One in the same (Father, Son, Spirit)? To be sent out by Jesus is to be sent out by the Holy Spirit ... is this not so?

They are distinct Persons of the same Being that is God.

The typical understanding of an apostle is one who has been commissioned directly by Jesus Christ Himself in a manifestation of some sort.

Paul and Barnabas were "separated" and sent out by the Holy Spirit.

 

[John of Japan]

It is taught by some or many, that there were only Twelve apostles plus Paul (which makes sense to me since it was Jesus and the Twelve and so, since Paul said he was a special exception, I can see how this could be symbolic for the Church. But, scripture also says the following:

Act 14:14
Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes

It clearly seems to state that both Barnabas and Paul were apostles. How can that be, if there were only Thirteen apostles in the early Church ?

There were actually quite a few other apostles besides the 12, including Paul and Barnabas: Andronicus and Junia (Rom. 16:7), James the Lord's brother (Gal. 1:19), Epaphroditus (the original of Phil. 2:25 is apostolos, apostle), the messengers (apostles) of the church at Corinth (2 Cor. 8:23), etc.? In fact, Jesus Christ Himself was an Apostle (Heb. 3:1).

The 12 were special, since they will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes, and their names will be inscribed in the foundation of the New Jerusalem. However, there is obviously a 2nd class of apostles. Most missiologists equate this second class with church-planting missionaries. (For the record, I disagree strongly with the modern Charismatic view of apostles, which is based on the heretical Manifest Sons of God doctrine of the Latter Rain movement.)

P. S. Welcome to the Baptist Board! :wavey:

 

[tomana]

Thanks for the welcome

though I had read Hebrews a number of times it did not register that it said Jesus was an Apostle :thumbsup:

Looking at your avatar ... are you karate, kung fu or other ?

 

[John of Japan]

Thanks for the welcome

though I had read Hebrews a number of times it did not register that it said Jesus was an Apostle :thumbsup:

Looking at your avatar ... are you karate, kung fu or other ?

I've done karate, judo (the avatar is me in a judo gi), etc., but my main style is a kung fu style started by Christians for ministry (evangelism and church classes). Do you practice a martial art?

 

[Baptist Believer]

Excellent answer.

However, this part of your response intrigued me:

The 12 were special, since they will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes, and their names will be inscribed in the foundation of the New Jerusalem.

Which 12? Obviously you mean the 11 who did not betray Jesus plus:

a.) Judas Iscariot?
b.) Matthias?
c.) Saul/Paul?
d.) someone else?

 

[John of Japan]

Excellent answer.

However, this part of your response intrigued me:

Which 12? Obviously you mean the 11 who did not betray Jesus plus:

a.) Judas Iscariot?
b.) Matthias?
c.) Saul/Paul?
d.) someone else?

I go with Matthias, since the Scripture specifically says he was "numbered with the eleven apostles." Early church pastor Irenaeus said he was ordained to be one of the 12.

 

[kyredneck]

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1794309#post1794309

 

[thomas15]

I've done karate, judo (the avatar is me in a judo gi), etc., but my main style is a kung fu style started by Christians for ministry (evangelism and church classes). Do you practice a martial art?

John I know that this was not directed to me but every time I see your avatar it reminds me of my martial arts past. I studied TKD for 6 years. Not to derail this thread but the first time I stepped foot into the dojang, this total non-athleate had a decision to make, do I quit before making a total fool out of myself or do I tough it out?

It took me 4 years to make rank. Two years later, right before testing for 2nd Dan we moved out of state. I tried a few schools in my new local but none of them really felt like home. I got involved in other things so needless to say it's all history now.

I do get the urge from time to time and if I ever get back into it would have no problem and in fact would insist on starting from square one.

 

[tomana]

had a few fung fu sessions many years ago, wasn't for me though. At the time I decided to move cross country and never did go back to any martial art. I'm a life long musician, you know ... make love not war :thumbsup: but I soon learned that that phrase wasn't being applied in that sequence, after doing Worship music at church for a while ("we want contemporary", "no, we want traditional", "the music's too loud", "he missed two notes, didn't sing it right" ...). TV shows sheep as completely passive creatures, gentle as a lamb but the truth be known, Sheep bite.

 

[John of Japan]

John I know that this was not directed to me but every time I see your avatar it reminds me of my martial arts past. I studied TKD for 6 years. Not to derail this thread but the first time I stepped foot into the dojang, this total non-athleate had a decision to make, do I quit before making a total fool out of myself or do I tough it out?

It took me 4 years to make rank. Two years later, right before testing for 2nd Dan we moved out of state. I tried a few schools in my new local but none of them really felt like home. I got involved in other things so needless to say it's all history now.

I do get the urge from time to time and if I ever get back into it would have no problem and in fact would insist on starting from square one.

Sounds like you have good memories! About being a non-athelete, that's the great thing about the martial arts--everyone starts ignorant! One of my best friends is a non-athlete 6th degree black belt!

 

[John of Japan]

had a few fung fu sessions many years ago, wasn't for me though. At the time I decided to move cross country and never did go back to any martial art. I'm a life long musician, you know ... make love not war :thumbsup: but I soon learned that that phrase wasn't being applied in that sequence, after doing Worship music at church for a while ("we want contemporary", "no, we want traditional", "the music's too loud", "he missed two notes, didn't sing it right" ...). TV shows sheep as completely passive creatures, gentle as a lamb but the truth be known, Sheep bite.

Hopefully you got enough training to defend yourself. Of course, "music hath charms to soothe the savage breast." :type: