Paul - "Lest I myself should be REPROBATED."

The silence is deafening.

 

Because the argument is without merit. It seemed to need no response.

If every single commitee done translation doesn't translate it as "reprobated", then one can be sure there's a reason. There is. In every one of those references where it is claimed that the word is the same, except for the Hebrews one, it isn't the same at all. Same root word, different form, and different forms have different meanings.

In the Hebrews reference where the form is similar, then it's translated, depending on which version you look at: useless, worthless, rejected, disapproved, etc. There's just no way "reprobated" is a legitimate translation of that word in that verse.

 

Well, according to a Greek lexicon and Greek-English interlinear I checked it's the same word, "adokimos", in three slightly different forms in all the verses sighted. What's interesting is the Strong's definition given for each was the same:

New Testament Greek Definition:
96 adokimos {ad-ok'-ee-mos}
from 1 (as a negative particle) and 1384; TDNT - 2:255,181; adj
AV - reprobate 6, castaway 1, rejected 1; 8
1) not standing the test, not approved
1a) properly used of metals and coins
2) that which does not prove itself such as it ought
2a) unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate

So although the forms are slightly different, this is the Strong's definition and number that was listed with the word in each verse of the Greek Interlinear I checked out.

In the NKJV, it's translated "disqualified" in 1 Corinthians 9:27; 2 Cor 13:5,6; and Titus 1:16. In Romans 1:28, it's "debased"; in 2 Timothy 3:8 it's "disapproved"; and in Hebrews 6:8 it's "rejected". It's basically the same thing.

 

That's because Strong's includes all forms of the word under one number. That's the way it works. That's one of the weaknesses of only using Strong's. It's helpful, but you need to know it's limitations, and exactly what it is that it tells you.

Check your Greek Text again, because they are not the same. Except in Hebrews 6.

And? None of them are "be reprobated".

And, BTW, I'm not sure what the point of the opening post is anyway. Calvinists believe that the reprobate are reprobate because they consistently choose to sin and when (and if) they hear the gospel, they reject it. Reprobation is an action people do to themselves. We would all be reprobate save for the intervening action of God.

If Paul had consistently been disobedient, he would have proved himself to be reprobate. But he didn't, and he didn't because the Holy Spirit worked obedience within him, and part of the way that obedience was worked was by impressing upon him the need remain true to Christ.

What Ben gives might be an argument against the non-Calvinist doctrine of OSAS, but it is not an argument against the Calvinist doctrine of Perseverence of the Saints.
And that's probably also why there's no response to this post. There's no point. Calvinists also believe that if Paul had not remained true to Christ in the end, he would have proved himself to be one of the reprobate. That he remained true to the end proves that God preserved him to the end.

 

Huh???? Assurance only comes from obedience. That's why it says to EXAMINE OURSELVES. If we are always being disobedient, we have no reason to consider ourselves saved.

 

1CO 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.


johnp.

 

I think Ben may be confusing the Calvinist view of Perseverance or Preservation of the Saints with that of the Modern day OSAS which is a common mistake of Arminians.

 

I think Ben is confused about a lot of things.

 

I think you are ALL confused!
Paul IS concerned with a very real possibility here. And he DOES continue in obedience to obtain the "prize". He IS concerned about being "castaway". (KJV)
But exactly WHAT is in view here?
It is NOT his salvation, this much is obvious. Else why would he say "if it be of works then it is no more grace"?
Obviously something has Paul "fearful".
I noticed you did NOT give a reference. That is very telling. You obviously have an axe to grind.
Well here is the solution;
1Co 9:24
¶ Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26
I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27
But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
AND:
2Co 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
AND:
2Ti 4:6
For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
7
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
AND:
Re 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In a nut shell. Paul feared being found unworthy of the coming Millenial Kingdom. It is that simple. OSAS is not violated, and the many warnings of apostacy are not violated.

God saves by faith alone in Christ alone. But it is Christ who rewards His faithful few, who perservere, with reigning with Him in the coming Kingdom for a thousand years.

One does NOT get a crown without winning the race. And one does NOT reign with HIM without a crown.

Of course ya'll may pooh-pooh this doctrine, but that don't matter. It is the truth.

In HIS service;
Jim