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Featured Paul's Model for Soul Winning

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, May 8, 2020.

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  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Proverbs 11:30
    The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

    We know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the real winner of souls.
    He seeks and saves that which is lost.
    In the providence of God when the gospel was to go worldwide God saved Paul as an instrument and example to us who seek to carry out the Great Commission.
    Paul knew about the law, and scriptures but did not have the right understanding until God saved Him. once regenerated he quickly was brought up to speed.We can learn how he brought saving truth to those God intended to save.
    1cor9:
    16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!

    17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

    18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

    19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

    20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

    21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

    22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

    23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.
     
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  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Paul presented the gospel to many diverse groups of people.
    In Acts 17 we find several helpful things.

    Acts 17 King James Version (KJV)
    17 Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:

    2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
    3 Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

    Here Paul found people who had been familiar with some of the teaching and promises of scripture and he reasoned with them we are told using legal terms, opening and alleging that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead.

    God used a man who loved scripture to present the case for penal substitution and the resurrection .\

    When truth is taught members of Satans Kingdom seek to oppose the truth.
    4 And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

    5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.

    Paul and others preached the Kingdom as a present reality.

    7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.

    8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.
     
    #2 Iconoclast, May 8, 2020
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  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.

    11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

    13 But when the Jews of Thessalonica had knowledge that the word of God was preached of Paul at Berea, they came thither also, and stirred up the people.

    Scripture preached, scripture searched. Scripture was central.
     
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  4. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not believe that Paul had a "model" for soul winning., but a principle:

    1 Corinthians 9:19-23 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

    Paul brought the gospel to men where those men were. To the Jews Paul relied very heavily, it seems, on the Old Testament Scriptures. To the Gentiles Paul met them where they were and explained to them Christ crucified (explained to them the gospel). That is, I believe, why sometimes we see Paul quoting Scripture to explain the gospel and at other times we see no Scripture used but the gospel explained to people given the knowledge of those to whom he was witnessing.
     
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  5. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    For an example -

    I shared the gospel with a young man who was an atheist. We just talked. He had a very strong sense of sin in that he believed he missed the mark of his own moral standard. We discussed things like Creation and that it proved the existence of at least an intelligence that he did not know. This led to a discussion of God and how, if man has this sense of right and wrong as this man evidenced, how much more would the Creator. Ultimately the young men came to know Christ as his Savior. From that point we discussed Scripture.

    I believe this is following the principle that Paul set for us. Meet people where they are. Don't "bring them to church" (figuratively) to witness to them. Man has an awareness of God, of good and evil, of right and wrong. Scripture tells us that the only reason they will not is if God has hardened their hearts against such knowledge. If that is the case then God has to work in their hearts to make them receptive to the gospel. I believe this is typically accomplished through the gospel itself, as the power of God to salvation.. In terms of witnessing, we are a slave to everyone to sin as many as possible.
     
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  6. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    And though most Baptists dont want to admit, demonic forces can also be hindering the person from receiving. I have seen that first hand on occasions.
     
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Sometimes people may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven. And sometimes Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them.

    I guess all we can do is sow and pray.
     
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  8. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    The Apostle Paul always based His soul winning squarely on SCRIPTURE.

    Let's watch how this chosen vessel of God does that very thing with these ungodly carnal philosophers and those persons wholly given over to idolatry.


    Paul being a regenerated person observed the world through a scriptural lens. He sees the city wholly given to idolatry.

    He observes a city in violation of the ten commandments.

    Paul loved and used scripture at all times like here;


    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.


    Even as an Apostle he would often directly quote
    scripture, or if need be, he would follow scriptural teaching by putting it in common language to communicate in language his hearers could understand.
    most times we see his skillful use of the law using it as a schoolmaster ...for what purpose??? TO LEAD PEOPLE TO CHRIST.

    Paul using
    scripture once again in gal3:
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


    The word for schoolmaster means a chid guardian;;
    B — 2:
    παιδαγωγός [​IMG]
    (Strong's #3807 — Noun Masculine — paidagogos — pahee-dag-o-gos' )
    "a guide," or "guardian" or "trainer of boys," lit., "a child-leader"
    (pais, "a boy, or child," ago, "to lead"), "a tutor," is translated "instructors" in 1 Corinthians 4:15 , AV (RV, "tutors"); here the thought is that of pastors rather than teachers; in Galatians 3:24,25 , AV, "schoolmaster" (RV, "tutor,"), but here the idea of instruction is absent. "In this and allied words the idea is that of training, discipline, not of impartation of knowledge. The paidagogos was not the instructor of the child; he exercised a general supervision over him and was responsible for his moral and physical well-being. Thus understood, paidagogos is appropriately used with 'kept in ward' and 'shut up,' whereas to understand it as equivalent to 'teacher' introduces an idea entirely foreign to the passage, and throws the Apostle's argument into confusion." * [* From Notes on Galatians, by Hogg and Vine, pp. 163,164] Cp. epitropos, "a steward, guardian, tutor


    So as we observe Paul we are to emulate what he does if we have such ability..we see that here;
    Phil 3:13-20
    13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

    14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

    15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

    16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

    17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

    18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

    19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

    20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:



    pt1 of 2
     
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  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    pt2


    Next up, Paul encounters worldly carnal philosophers. Men using worldly carnal philosophy inevitably go away from the truth of God.
    When you turn from the light of scripture, you turn to darkness.
    jn12
    35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.

    36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.



    Typical of those who love carnal philosophy, they are self-righteous and even if they ask questions it is really just so they can make mocking accusations similar to these unsaved Pharisees;
    Mark 3 King James Version (KJV)
    3 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand.

    2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.


    22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.

    23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, To The Unknown God. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.

    Paul takes a reading on who he is talking to, and adjusts his presentation
    using scripture


    Do these men know scripture like those in the temples and synagogues?
    No, not at all....So does Paul abandon
    scripture and tell stories about puppy dogs, and unicorns, and crack jokes? Does he give them a long discussion about philosophy...No? He uses one example of something they relate to get their attention as He is going to introduce a biblical understanding of the world using scriptural teaching as his core, yet putting it into words that the Spirit can use to bear witness to them


    24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

    Paul speaks of God who is the creator and Lord of all. How does Paul know this? SCRIPTURE.
    Paul speaks of Heaven , and how the true God is to be worshipped. How does he know this?SCRIPTURE.
    25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;

    Is he just making things up randomly, or is everything he is saying available in
    SCRIPTURE?


    26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
    He speaks of the absolute sovereignty of God over all men everywhere

    27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

    28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

    29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

    30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

    31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

    How did Paul know this? what is his teaching based on? SCRIPTURE


    32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

    33 So Paul departed from among them.

    Paul says we should be followers of him.
     
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  10. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Another thing to consider is apostleship itself.

    Paul did not appeal to Scripture for his authority (although Scripture is the test of what is delivered) but to his own experience with the gospel. We rely on Scripture but at the same time we ourselves are lights, we are members of the Body.
     
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  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Here is the same pattern;
    Acts 18 King James Version (KJV)
    18 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;

    2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.

    3 And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers.

    4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.

    5 And when Silas and Timotheus were come from Macedonia, Paul was pressed in the spirit, and testified to the Jews that Jesus was Christ.

    6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean; from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

    Many resist the doctrines of grace. The text describes that they oppose themselves.
    Paul would explain how this takes place;
    2 Timothy 2 King James Version (KJV)
    2 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

    2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.


    and then;
    7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

    8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Scripture based teaching linked from promise, to fulfillment...drawn from SCRIPTURE.

    THEN THIS;

    14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

    15
    Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    16
    But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

    When men turn from scripture and a grace based gospel all that they turn to is;

    not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
    But shun profane and vain babblings


    A person filled with wrong teaching, seeks to undermine true teaching

    then this;

    17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

    18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

    19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

    20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

    21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

    22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

    23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.


    We see this so often, confused persons, bitter, jealous trying to take others down. To obey Paul we must request they go away, or in some way depart from them if they will not listen to scripture
    Watch as Paul explains the guidelines;
    24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

    25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

    26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
     
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  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    We have to be careful about methodizing evangelism. This is from a book we discussed on this board a few years ago.

    Perhaps the most covert idol of all is religion, specifically the Christian faith. But how could that be? Isn’t our faith supposed to be the most important thing in our lives? Well, sorta. A spiritually minded person has to develop the sensitivity to know when Christian values and activities are replacing Christ, to discern when godly things become more important than God Himself. As followers of Jesus, we can unknowingly worship the Christian faith instead of the Christ. We prioritize biblical principles over the Person of God. We have more allegiance to our church than to the One we claim to worship. We love Bible studies more than God. It’s like being in love with the idea of love instead of being in love with the person we claim to love!

    (Bobby Conway, The Fifth Gospel)
     
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  13. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In acts18:9-11... God speaks to Paul in a Night Vision saying be not afraid but speak and hold not thy peace for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee for I have much people in the city.
    He continued there a year and six months teaching the word of God among them.

    Same pattern he stays 1.5 years teaching Scripture.
     
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not believe, @Iconoclast, that we will have any difficulty finding apostles who quote Scripture.

    The problem for your claim is that it is not consistent (you string along some examples to form your conclusion, but you miss the forrest for your selection of trees).
     
  15. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    In Acts18:9-11... God speaks to Paul in a Night Vision saying be not afraid but speak and hold not thy peace for I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee for I have much people in the city.
    He continued there a year and six months teaching the word of God among them.
    Same pattern he stays 1.5 years teaching Scripture.

    Now it is obvious that it is The Lord Jesus Christ in complete control of these evangelistic efforts. He informs Paul that he has much people in this city. He knows because He God has elected them before the world was.
    During the foundational portion of the Nt. church the Apostles were uniquely used by God, In that they received some additional revelation that they were promised, to ensure we would have all that pertains to life and godliness.
    Eph2:20.
    Acts is not a series of random texts and the verses the Apostles used help us piece together redemptive History.
    In our day there is a mistaken notion that we can ignore or avoid these recorded portions of real evangelism, and replace this pattern with "the love of God".Messages about how God is love are believed to trump how we see the Apostles go about real evangelism.
    Strangely the word love does not appear anywhere in the book of Acts.
    The reason is that was not the basis of the preaching.
    The person and work of Jesus and His Kingdom were.
     
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  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I am interested in your reason for this ststement:

    "Strangely the word love does not appear anywhere in the book of Acts."

    Can you explain the significance you believe your statement points out?

    I think most Christians probably see love as a principle theme of Acts. You seem to find it almost offensive.

    Thanks.
     
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    JonC,

    I an not sure you are interested in my reason for posting this. Why would I say such a thing?
    Because you quoted my post which said the REASON, THAT IS THE EXACT WORDING I USED


    Here THE END PORTION YOU YOURSELF QUOTED;

    Strangely the word love does not appear anywhere in the book of Acts.
    The reason is that was not the basis of the preaching.
    The person and work of Jesus and His Kingdom were.

    My statement was not discussing major themes in the book of Acts, though, was it? I made a statement of fact:
    The word love does not occur ONE TIME in Acts. If that was the main theme it might appear somwhere.

    Of course, when believers see the cross being preached we understand the Love of God in sending His Son, thanks to the God-given Scriptures.

    But the main thrust was for people to repent of sins and enter the Kingdom and what that meant to them.
    I could give several verses on that theme but many object to giving more than a verse or two, so this might suffice; Acts28:
    23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

    24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.



    30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,

    31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.

    Soul winning, The Kingdom, from scripture, this was the pattern .
     
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  18. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    JonC,

    Looks like plenty of scripture spoken of right here in Acts13
    16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

    17 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.

    18 And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness.

    19 And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot.

    20 And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet.

    21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years.

    22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave their testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

    23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

    24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

    25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose.

    26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

    27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

    28 And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain.

    29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.

    30 But God raised him from the dead:
     
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  19. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    The issue on this topic is that there are none saying Paul did not use Scripture. There are none saying that Paul's preaching was in-biblical (that what Paul said has no connection to Scripture).

    This seems to be what the last few posts are claiming, which would be what is typically referred to as "straw-men" or "distractions".

    Paul based his apostleship on his encounter with Christ. Scripture does not make a Christian an Apostle.

    Paul reasoned with many using Scripture. I never said otherwise. But obviously he reasoned with many where they were (he did not have them first accept Scripture).

    Spurgeon pointed out the flaw of the OP. Some men find a truth and say "oh this is good". And then they apply it out of proper bounds (puffery of doctrine).

    Scripture is good. It is holy. It is our standard. It us God's Word.

    It is not the gospel but testifies to the gospel. Scripture is for the teaching and equipping of "godly men". (2 Timothy 3:16-17).
     
  20. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Jon
    The "this seems to be" is a hint error is coming...
    The thread is an examination of scripture.
    Paul said in Phil.3...to follow him, both in life conduct, and teaching.
    Seeing Paul base all his teaching and preaching on scripture than functions as a model, not a strawman, but the teaching of scripture
    .

    This is a distraction. What he based his apostleship on, is not in question by anyone. No one said scripture made Paul an apostle!
    Can you post anyone saying this, in the thread?

    [QUOTE]Paul reasoned with many using Scripture. I never said otherwise. But obviously he reasoned with many where they were (he did not have them first accept Scripture).[/QUOTE]

    No one said he did.:Cautious:Cautious:Cautious
    I do not think he read the OP.If I had time I can show where he would agree, especially since Spurgeon used Keach's Catechism, and the 1689.

    Good quote misapplied here.

    Oh good, now you are getting it! Keep coming to the light;)
     
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