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Featured Pelagianism

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by JonC, Jul 24, 2022.

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  1. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    On another thread I stated that aborted children are sinners by nature and face the wages of sin. But at the same time I do not believe aborted children have committed sins (sinful acts).

    @AustinC believes this is the heresy called Pelagianism.

    Having studied theology I know it is not, but wanted to give him a forum to learn. But I have studied this in depth as a graduate student and have no interest in studying it again with @AustinC .

    I will say that the belief all men ate sinners by nature negates Pelagianism. The belief that we cannot, apart from God, do any true hood negates Pelaganism. The belief that no man can come to God apart from God drawing them negates Pelagianism.

    I think @AustinC knows this and just uses "Pelagianism" as a type 9f insult without meaning towards anybody who challenges his views. I belief it is evidence that he cannot defend his faith, as he resorts to empty insults.


    Here is one link for the interested:


    Pelagianism | Description, History, & Beliefs
     
    #1 JonC, Jul 24, 2022
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  2. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    On B.B. anything contradictory to Calvinism is Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism.
     
    #2 Reynolds, Jul 24, 2022
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  3. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I noticed.
     
    #3 JonC, Jul 25, 2022
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Much of modern day Christianity holds to semi Pel viewpoint, as we must "co assist" God to save us!
     
    #4 JesusFan, Jul 25, 2022
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  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Most of modern Christianity holds to semi Pel it would seem!
     
    #5 JesusFan, Jul 25, 2022
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  6. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    It was the position of Pelagius that Adam’s sin affected Adam and only Adam. That is to say, as a result of Adam’s transgression there was no change wrought in the constituent nature of the human race. Man was born in a state of righteousness, and as one created in the image of God, he was created immutably so. Even though it was possible for him to sin, it was not possible for him to lose his basic human nature, which was capable always and everywhere to be obedient. Pelagius went on to say that it is, even after the sin of Adam, possible for every human being to live a life of perfect righteousness and that, indeed, some have achieved such status.
    The Pelagian Controversy by R.C. Sproul

    Along with Pelagius, Evangelicals[2] today believe that salvation is by character.[3] They believe that men, by faith, before God actually affects a change in their nature, must exercise their will towards that which is good and believe the promises of God without coercion because they are able to do so.
    The Pelagian Captivity of the Church – by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

    Original Sin & the Death of Infants | Tim Challies
     
    #6 AustinC, Jul 25, 2022
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  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    It's more than that.

    Scripture presents Adam as the head of man. It is not that Adam made everybody sin, but that through Adam sin entered the world, and through sin, death. And death spread to all men for all have sinned. Granted, "men" here is people groups...i.e., Jew and Gentile. But the fact is all are men.

    In other words, were you in the Garden instead of Adam you would have done the same.

    But Pelagius was, of course wrong. That is not the point here.

    The point is that you, and a few others, use the word "Pelagianism" not to reflect the beliefs of the heresy but as an insult to hurl at anybody who dares question Calvinism.

    You would do better to defend your position rather than misrepresent the views of others.
     
    #7 JonC, Jul 25, 2022
  8. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Since it has come up....
    Is not calling someone a heretic a violation of board rules? By defacto, accusing one of doctrinal heresy labels them as a heretic.
    Why is accusing a person of believeing Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism not a violation of board rules?
     
    #8 Reynolds, Jul 25, 2022
  9. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Saying somebody believes Pelagianism should be. But also because lying is against the rules.

    Some want to paint those who disagree with them in the worst light, even if it is untrue, just to have points of greater disagreement. That is how some use "Pelaganism", "leftist", "liberal", etc. It is just to create emotion because they cannot defend their own views adequately.
     
    #9 JonC, Jul 25, 2022
  10. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I use it to reflect the idea that a human being is born without sin.
     
    #10 AustinC, Jul 25, 2022
  11. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    @AustinC has falsely accused me of peddling RCC teaching several times, when he is unable to produce even one verse of scripture to support the unscriptural position that he blindly parrots.
     
    #11 kyredneck, Jul 25, 2022
  12. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Why did I get quoted? I have never accused you of RCC teaching.
     
    #12 Reynolds, Jul 26, 2022
  13. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Chill brother, I never accused you of accusing me of RCC teaching.
     
    #13 kyredneck, Jul 26, 2022
  14. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    #14 kyredneck, Jul 26, 2022
  15. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I just asked why I got quoted in the accusation?
    You seem like you the one steamed up.
     
    #15 Reynolds, Jul 26, 2022
  16. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    YOU said:
    "On B.B. anything contradictory to Calvinism is Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism."

    I said:
    "@AustinC has falsely accused me of peddling RCC teaching several times..."

    ...THE POINT BEING, 'Pelagianism or semi-Pelagianism' is not the only accusation a 'Calvinist' like AustinC will accuse an opponent of.
     
    #16 kyredneck, Jul 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2022
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  17. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Makes sense now but that is so off topic to the O.P. that I would never have made the association.
     
    #17 Reynolds, Jul 26, 2022
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Off topic??? From the OP:

    "I think @AustinC knows this and just uses "Pelagianism" as a type of insult without meaning towards anybody who challenges his views. I belief it is evidence that he cannot defend his faith, as he resorts to empty insults."

    Replace "Pelagianism" with RCC teaching, or any other groundless accusation you can think of. There's several here on the BB who are unable to defend their views and will not hesitate to resort to empty accusations like @AustinC does.
     
    #18 kyredneck, Jul 26, 2022
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Do you or do you not teach justification by faith plus works?
     
    #19 AustinC, Jul 26, 2022
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  20. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    I quote scripture:

    13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: Ro 2
    24 being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Ro 3
    1 Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
    9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Ro 5
    33 Who shall lay anything to the charge of God`s elect? It is God that justifieth; Ro 8

    24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2
     
    #20 kyredneck, Jul 26, 2022
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