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Perseverance

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Perseverance of the saints is one of those subjects that used to bedevil me for a long time. It seems that there are strong proofs on the other side - until you examine each of these "proofs" point by point and in context.

But rather than go right to those problem passages, it seems that the better course would be to state the case positively, to find from the Bible just what it means to be a Christian, This in itself will be the best proof against the idea that anyone, truly born again and given a new nature, gets unborn again and has the new nature taken away.

Thanks be to God for His Unbreakable Gift!
A lot of those gifts from last Christmas season may have looked quite nice in their boxes on the shelves, packaged like so many treasures. Yet how soon were many of those gifts already broken, nicked and battered. Some never even worked or were destroyed because the instructions weren't followed in assembling or operating.

God's gift is not like that. Jesus Christ is the Door, the Way, the Life, the True Shepherd, the True Vine and so much more. The predetermined plan of the Father for the Son was a bloody painful death so that He could rescue us from sinful rebellion and spiritual poverty and give us an inheritance, a hope and new life in the Spirit. It is an insult to think that, after he did all this for us, and after the Son willingly suffered for us, that He would be unable to keep the gift in our hands. His love and grace made us new creatures. We cannot erase our new nature. Neither can we lose the gift He gave us.

"He who began a good work in us will complete it until the Day of Christ Jesus".

Consider these verses: Rom. 8:29- 30, 38; 10:28; 11:29; Phil. 1:6; Heb. 6:17; 2nd Tim. 2:19; 1st Pet. 1:4- 5 and see that:

What God plans will not change - and His elect were planned to be so from before time.
Our inheritance will not be revoked.
Our foundation cannot be shaken.
Our seal cannot be broken.

All these things that have to do with our salvation were given to us by the grace of God. Do we think that somehow by our effort we can hold onto it now?

"Having begun in the Spirit, are we now to be perfected in the flesh?" (Gal. 3:3)

If it would be up to us then we would certainly lose our salvation. But since we did not enter into this new life “by the will of the flesh” (John 1:12- 13), neither do we maintain it by our own efforts. We are "kept by the power of God". Jesus assures us that all that the Father gave to Him (Jesus) were kept. Not one of them will perish.

Preservation of the Saints vs. Presumption of the "Aint's"
(or Standing on the Promises vs. merely Sitting in the Premises)

Sometimes the wrong people are looking to God for assurance of a salvation in which they have no real interest. For such people there can be no assurance given. I am speaking of those who know enough of God to know that they do not want to face judgment, but they do not desire to be holy either. They do not desire at all to reach toward God in faith, to read His Word, consider His promises.

They do not love Him.
They fear Him and hope that that passes for faith.
They hide their talent in the ground and hope that passes for obedience.

They want Heaven later (they imagine), but want to live like Hell now. Like Balaam (Numbers 23:10) they want to “die the death of the righteous”, but they do not want to live the life of the righteous. By contrast, those born of God do not habitually practice sin (1 John 3:9). They are sheep following the Shepherd. They may fall into sin at times, but they do not wallow into it. That is another animal altogether.

It is very possible that God's saints do sin horribly and become backslidden. But they do not stay there. They are not happy there. Shortly after Balaam's prophecy, in which he praised God and the people of God, he was killed by those very same people. He never joined the people of Israel, but stayed with other alien people who were a curse to Israel. And in their judgment he was judged too. Likewise, God tells us (anyone who possesses or professes love to God) to "come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing".

Omniscience + Omnipotence + Perfect love for the elect = Perseverance.
Is God omniscient? Is He omnipotent? Does He love those He saves? I hope you will agree to these. If you do, then you will also need to agree that the elect will persevere. Imagine this scenario from an Arminian perspective:

Mr Arminian gets saved. After a certain amount of time, Mr. A. heads for a crisis in which God knows that he will deny the faith and turn back on God (This is, after all, what many Arminians believe). Since God foresees what A. will do, why doesn't God take A home before he "becomes" unsaved? After all, any disaster would be preferable to going to Hell.

This is a predicament for anyone who doesn't believe in the perseverance of the saints, yet believes that God loves the Christian and that He is omniscient. He must say that either:

1. God is omniscient, but is unable to intervene (unbiblical), or
2. God is not truly omniscient in a perfect sense, but, since reality is time-contingent, God's omniscience is limited by time's constraints (unbiblical), or
3. God is truly omniscient and sovereign, yet does not love those He saved enough to see them through to Heaven (also unbiblical).

What is the answer to this predicament? To recognize that God's love plus His sovereignty plus His omniscience means perseverance for the elect. Or to use Jeremiah's words (Jer. 31:3):

"Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you."

Or Paul's (Rom. 8:31- 39) " Who shall separate us from the love of God....?"

John 6:39 is just as straightforward, in which Jesus says:

"This is the Father's will [thelema - "intention"] who has sent Me, that of all whom He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day".

Did you catch that? We were thinking about our gift of eternal life as something given to us by God, forgetting that we ourselves are the Father's gift to the Son. We may lose our own gifts - and often do - but God knows how to keep His gifts.

We are in Good Hands. We are in God's Hands.
Everyone one who is given by the Father to the Son will be saved and will be be presented again to the Father. For us, this means perseverance of the saints. For God it means the perfection of His plans and the unchangeableness of His purpose.

I resisted the urge to title this post “Perseverance of the Saints” because it tends to be misleading. The focus ought to be more on God, His faithfulness, His power, His love. And every person who is sincerely moved by these attributes of God is likewise moved by His Spirit, however imperfectly, “to will and to do of His good pleasure.”
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Once saved, always saved is valid biblical doctrine, the claim that born anew believers can never back-slide has no basis in scripture.
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Once saved, always saved is valid biblical doctrine, the claim that born anew believers can never back-slide has no basis in scripture.

Yes. That is why I wrote:

"It is very possible that God's saints do sin horribly and become backslidden. But they do not stay there. They are not happy there."
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Perseverance of the saints is one of those subjects that used to bedevil me for a long time. It seems that there are strong proofs on the other side - until you examine each of these "proofs" point by point and in context.

But rather than go right to those problem passages, it seems that the better course would be to state the case positively, to find from the Bible just what it means to be a Christian, This in itself will be the best proof against the idea that anyone, truly born again and given a new nature, gets unborn again and has the new nature taken away.

Thanks be to God for His Unbreakable Gift!
A lot of those gifts from last Christmas season may have looked quite nice in their boxes on the shelves, packaged like so many treasures. Yet how soon were many of those gifts already broken, nicked and battered. Some never even worked or were destroyed because the instructions weren't followed in assembling or operating.

God's gift is not like that. Jesus Christ is the Door, the Way, the Life, the True Shepherd, the True Vine and so much more. The predetermined plan of the Father for the Son was a bloody painful death so that He could rescue us from sinful rebellion and spiritual poverty and give us an inheritance, a hope and new life in the Spirit. It is an insult to think that, after he did all this for us, and after the Son willingly suffered for us, that He would be unable to keep the gift in our hands. His love and grace made us new creatures. We cannot erase our new nature. Neither can we lose the gift He gave us.

"He who began a good work in us will complete it until the Day of Christ Jesus".

Consider these verses: Rom. 8:29- 30, 38; 10:28; 11:29; Phil. 1:6; Heb. 6:17; 2nd Tim. 2:19; 1st Pet. 1:4- 5 and see that:

What God plans will not change - and His elect were planned to be so from before time.
Our inheritance will not be revoked.
Our foundation cannot be shaken.
Our seal cannot be broken.

All these things that have to do with our salvation were given to us by the grace of God. Do we think that somehow by our effort we can hold onto it now?

"Having begun in the Spirit, are we now to be perfected in the flesh?" (Gal. 3:3)

If it would be up to us then we would certainly lose our salvation. But since we did not enter into this new life “by the will of the flesh” (John 1:12- 13), neither do we maintain it by our own efforts. We are "kept by the power of God". Jesus assures us that all that the Father gave to Him (Jesus) were kept. Not one of them will perish.

Preservation of the Saints vs. Presumption of the "Aint's"
(or Standing on the Promises vs. merely Sitting in the Premises)

Sometimes the wrong people are looking to God for assurance of a salvation in which they have no real interest. For such people there can be no assurance given. I am speaking of those who know enough of God to know that they do not want to face judgment, but they do not desire to be holy either. They do not desire at all to reach toward God in faith, to read His Word, consider His promises.

They do not love Him.
They fear Him and hope that that passes for faith.
They hide their talent in the ground and hope that passes for obedience.

They want Heaven later (they imagine), but want to live like Hell now. Like Balaam (Numbers 23:10) they want to “die the death of the righteous”, but they do not want to live the life of the righteous. By contrast, those born of God do not habitually practice sin (1 John 3:9). They are sheep following the Shepherd. They may fall into sin at times, but they do not wallow into it. That is another animal altogether.

It is very possible that God's saints do sin horribly and become backslidden. But they do not stay there. They are not happy there. Shortly after Balaam's prophecy, in which he praised God and the people of God, he was killed by those very same people. He never joined the people of Israel, but stayed with other alien people who were a curse to Israel. And in their judgment he was judged too. Likewise, God tells us (anyone who possesses or professes love to God) to "come out from among them and touch not the unclean thing".

Omniscience + Omnipotence + Perfect love for the elect = Perseverance.
Is God omniscient? Is He omnipotent? Does He love those He saves? I hope you will agree to these. If you do, then you will also need to agree that the elect will persevere. Imagine this scenario from an Arminian perspective:

Mr Arminian gets saved. After a certain amount of time, Mr. A. heads for a crisis in which God knows that he will deny the faith and turn back on God (This is, after all, what many Arminians believe). Since God foresees what A. will do, why doesn't God take A home before he "becomes" unsaved? After all, any disaster would be preferable to going to Hell.

This is a predicament for anyone who doesn't believe in the perseverance of the saints, yet believes that God loves the Christian and that He is omniscient. He must say that either:

1. God is omniscient, but is unable to intervene (unbiblical), or
2. God is not truly omniscient in a perfect sense, but, since reality is time-contingent, God's omniscience is limited by time's constraints (unbiblical), or
3. God is truly omniscient and sovereign, yet does not love those He saved enough to see them through to Heaven (also unbiblical).

What is the answer to this predicament? To recognize that God's love plus His sovereignty plus His omniscience means perseverance for the elect. Or to use Jeremiah's words (Jer. 31:3):

"Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you."

Or Paul's (Rom. 8:31- 39) " Who shall separate us from the love of God....?"

John 6:39 is just as straightforward, in which Jesus says:

"This is the Father's will [thelema - "intention"] who has sent Me, that of all whom He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day".

Did you catch that? We were thinking about our gift of eternal life as something given to us by God, forgetting that we ourselves are the Father's gift to the Son. We may lose our own gifts - and often do - but God knows how to keep His gifts.

We are in Good Hands. We are in God's Hands.
Everyone one who is given by the Father to the Son will be saved and will be be presented again to the Father. For us, this means perseverance of the saints. For God it means the perfection of His plans and the unchangeableness of His purpose.

I resisted the urge to title this post “Perseverance of the Saints” because it tends to be misleading. The focus ought to be more on God, His faithfulness, His power, His love. And every person who is sincerely moved by these attributes of God is likewise moved by His Spirit, however imperfectly, “to will and to do of His good pleasure.”


Ephesians 4:30 KJV

'sealed unto the day of redemption
'
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Most of the songs that I hum along with in service now-a-days are forgotten almost as I leave the service.
But I was reminded about the story behind a famous old hymn, COME THOU FOUNT [link].

God has a grasp on us and won't let go.
Thanks

Rob

I first heard of the story behind that hymn when I was at BJU. It made a deep impression on me.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes. That is why I wrote:

"It is very possible that God's saints do sin horribly and become backslidden. But they do not stay there. They are not happy there."

If His saints 'oppose themselves' too grievously they may find themselves turned over to Satan according to God's will. They most certainly will not be happy there but it's totally God's call whether to grant repentance.

2 Timothy 2:24-26

1 Corinthians 5:5

1 Timothy 1:19-20

Luke 22:31-32
 
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Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
If His saints 'oppose themselves' too grievously they may find themselves turned over to Satan according to God's will. They most certainly will not be happy there but it's totally God's call whether to grant repentance.

2 Timothy 2:24-26

1 Corinthians 5:5

1 Timothy 1:19-20

Luke 22:31-32

Free Will = Free Loose = Jesus is not The Savior.
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
That might be true in some way. What's that statement based on?

Several of the verses I quoted show that salvation is a gift promised by God. And also we have promises like, "He who has begun a good work in you will perfect it unto the Day of Christ Jesus." Seeing that Scripture "cannot be broken" it follows that the gift promised is also unbreakable.
 

asterisktom

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If His saints 'oppose themselves' too grievously they may find themselves turned over to Satan according to God's will. They most certainly will not be happy there but it's totally God's call whether to grant repentance.

2 Timothy 2:24-26

1 Corinthians 5:5

1 Timothy 1:19-20

Luke 22:31-32

True. And I know there is a difference between receiving the gift versus merely tasting of the heavenly gift, Heb. 6:4. And between the two extremes of the obviously saved and the obviously reprobate, we also have those people seemingly in the middle, the "only God knows" cases. Good thing we do not have to figure those out. I have enough to do to focus on my own front porch.
 
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