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Peter Before Pentecost

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Lorelei, Apr 4, 2002.

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  1. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    I believe that there is a significance to the way Peter reacted to certain events before the day of Pentecost and how he reacted after it. I think the indwelling of the Holy Spirit enabled him to do the things he couldn't do before he had it. Am I wrong?

    Before Pentecost:

    Peter is strong and faithful in the prescence of Christ. He walks on water (until he takes his eye off Jesus).

    The day Jesus is arrested Peter is ready to fight for his Lord and yet hours later he is denying the very One he was willing to fight for.

    After Pentecost:

    Peter preaches the gospel with boldness never fearing persecution or improsment. (He is now always in the prescence of Christ through the Spirit)

    Isn't the difference because he was then filled with the Holy Spirit?

    Didn't this power make a difference?

    I do understand that Peter was responsible for his actions before this day (I stated that poorly in the other thread). However, I still feel there is some significance here.

    I may need some lessons on how the Holy Spirit worked in the OT and I know that people were held accountable for thier actions in the OT as well. I guess what I am asking, is what is the difference and how was it signigicant in Peter actions before and after Pentecost? If it wasn't significant, then why is it significant at all?

    ~Lorelei
     
    #1 Lorelei, Apr 4, 2002
  2. Carly33

    Carly33 New Member

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    Yes, Peter recieved the indwelling of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost. Up to that point just as in OT times, his faith was accounted to him as righteousness. In this age of grace, faith in Jesus allows the blood of Christ to attone for our sins, once and for all.

    Acts 1:8" But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me...."

    God has written his laws on our hearts and minds thru the Holy Spirit indwelling. The HS convicts and brings to mind God's laws. He empowers us to live victoriously in Christ.
     
    #2 Carly33, Apr 9, 2002
  3. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    It seems to me that Peter, and the others, received the Holy Spirit prior to Pentecost according to John 20:22 "And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:" [​IMG]
     
    #3 DocCas, Apr 9, 2002
  4. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Thomas,

    So if they already had it why did they have to wait for it in Acts chapter 1?

    Is the Holy Spirit something we have always or conditionally?

    ~Lorelei
     
    #4 Lorelei, Apr 9, 2002
  5. DocCas

    DocCas New Member

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    They didn't have to wait for it (Him). They already had Him. What happened on the Day of Pentecost was the Holy Spirit came upon them with a new power that was absent before. New ministry, same Spirit. [​IMG]
     
    #5 DocCas, Apr 9, 2002
  6. Doc Yankum

    Doc Yankum New Member

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    Thomas is right. They already had the Holy Spirit in their hearts. They received it at the time of their salvation. The thing that happened at Pentecost was that the Church received the Holy Spirit and she was empowered to carry out the orders Christ gave the Church in the Great Commission.
     
    #6 Doc Yankum, Apr 9, 2002
  7. Carly33

    Carly33 New Member

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    But when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on them was that an indwelling or power for that particular act???

    In the OT the H S was given for a time, not always permanently.

    Just wonderin?
     
    #7 Carly33, Apr 9, 2002
  8. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Thomas said they received the Holy Spirit when Christ breathed on then, which was after Christ had died and rose agian and appeared the them. They already believed by this point, so according to Thomas it wasn't relevant to "salvation", it was when Jesus "breathed" on them.

    Thomas said they already had Him (The Spirit), but Jesus says that they don't in Acts chapter 1. At least not in the way we have the Spirit today. That is what I am talking about. I don't know maybe someone can explain how the Spirit worked in the OT.

    It says in verse 5 the Baptism hasn't happened yet and in verse 8 it says that they will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon them. If they don't have the power yet, then the according to Jesus, they didnt' have the Spirit yet, for the power was coming after they had the Spirit and as of yet, the don't have it.

    ~Lorelei
     
    #8 Lorelei, Apr 10, 2002
  9. Chet

    Chet New Member

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    John 20:22
    And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
    ESV

    What is the this?

    John 20:21
    Jesus said to them again, "Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I
    am sending you."
    ESV

    Sending you to do what?

    John 20:23
    If you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from
    anyone, it is withheld."
    ESV

    I believe that this is a very special event for a very unique period. This is a period of time in which the Law had ended and the birth of the Church had not taken place. Further, I believe the ministry of the permanent indwelling of the Spirit was unknown in the OT, and would be begining in 50 more days. Christ was giving His apostles the power to fulfill the act of proclaiming forgiveness of sins by anyone who trusted in the finished work of Christ.

    We can look at Peter as an example of someone who was not permanently indwell, but needed the Spirit of God here in John 20:22. As Lorelei did point out the difference in Peter’s life before and after Pentecost, and rightly so. In fact, the life of Peter is one of my favorite studies. In Matthew 16 Peter declares that the Lord Jesus was the Son of the living God, and upon Peter (small stone) Christ (the stone) was going to build His church. Was Peter permanently indwell by the Sprit then? If so, why was Christ needed to breath the Spirit upon him?

    The permanent indwelling of the Sprit was unknown to those of the OT and anyone between the Law and the Church.

    Here is a quote from The Bible Knowledge Commentary

     
    #9 Chet, Apr 10, 2002
  10. Carly33

    Carly33 New Member

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    I think I agree with you Chet....
     
    #10 Carly33, Apr 10, 2002
  11. Doc Yankum

    Doc Yankum New Member

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    Chet, I agree with you up to your remarks concerning Matthew 16. I believe you are like many people who have been influenced by RC teachings. If the Church is built on Peter, then it is in trouble. You are correct by saying that Peter (petros in Greek) is a small stone, but the rock(petra) is the unshakable truth that Jesus is the Son of God. This knowledge and Christ is what the Church is built on.
     
    #11 Doc Yankum, Apr 10, 2002
  12. Lorelei

    Lorelei <img src ="http://www.amacominc.com/~lorelei/mgsm.

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    Chet,

    Amen! That's what I was trying to say! Well, at least what I wanted to say. I do admit my knowledge is limited, but I couldn't ignore the difference or significance of the way things were before and after.

    I have been studying John 20. There are many opinions out there and some make a lot of sense, but I can't take the opinion that contradicts Acts 1. You can bet I will keep on studying though. Thanks for sharing the comments and explaining them so clearly! [​IMG]

    ~Lorelei
     
    #12 Lorelei, Apr 11, 2002
  13. Doc Yankum

    Doc Yankum New Member

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    Lorelei, these words Jesus spoke in Acts 1 are actually a part of the Great Commission as recorded by two different writers. These words were directed to the collective Church and not to individuals. It's late I've got to turn in. I'll check this tomorrow.
     
    #13 Doc Yankum, Apr 11, 2002
  14. Chet

    Chet New Member

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    Doc Yankum

    Thanks for clearing that up, I agree with you. I did not articulate my thought well enough there.

    God Bless [​IMG]
     
    #14 Chet, Apr 11, 2002
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