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Featured pictures of a brain with mental illness for fred

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by nodak, Apr 26, 2012.

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  1. nodak

    nodak Active Member
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    I cannot send them to you since my son and my uncle (late) have the right of privacy.

    BUT--our son, whom we adopted, suffers from bipolar, fetal alcohol syndrome, and fragile x. MRI's of his brain DO show the prefrontal cortex as significantly altered.

    My mom's sister's husband suffered from schizophrenia and his MRI's were typical for late stage of that disease. You can literally watch the ventricals enlarge and the brain shrink with the passage of time.

    My cousin also has bipolar, as does an ex son in law. You can also see the difference in their brains on PET scans. You can see the areas that get good activity and the one's that don't.

    My cousin is and has always been the sweetest, most loyal to the Lord good Baptist lady I have known. I have never known anyone as sold out to the Lord as she is.

    She doesn't manifest the disease as sinful behavior. Rather, what the shrinks call the "housekeeping functions" of the brain don't work. She will have times she cannot sleep, is agitated and cleans house like a son of gun, speaks too fast, and complains of racing thoughts. Then she cannot wake up and sleeps far too much, gains weight even when eating very little, and cannot remember simple tasks. Lethargy, pain, and debilitating sadness take over her feelings.

    AND THROUGH IT ALL she has worked, raised her family, taken care of her home and child and husband, and served her church and her Lord faithfully.

    Judge not lest ye be judged.
     
    #1 nodak, Apr 26, 2012
  2. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Mental illness means, literally, an illness of the mind, as opposed to an illness of the brain. But can minds be ill? I argue that they cannot. Mental illness is, therefore, a myth. Since illness affects only the body and the ‘mind’ is not a bodily organ, the mind cannot be ill. ‘Mental illness’ is, therefore, an oxymoron.

    http://educationviews.org/2011/08/05/a-dissenting-view-the-myth-of-mental-illness/
     
    #2 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
  3. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Sorry Nodak, but I am still not sold on this "mental illness" theory.

    Given the fact that the mind is immaterial, (one cannot remove it from the body and hold it in one's hands or put it in a box) it is impossible for the mind to develop an illness.
     
    #3 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2012
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    The mind is absolutely 100% affected by biological issues. Mental illness can absolutely be caused by biological issues in the brain. Bad brain=bad mind. How do you think they find brain tumors? Often it's from a change in behavior - which stems from the mind.
     
    #4 annsni, Apr 26, 2012
  5. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    They find brain tumors in the mind?? Wow, I didn't know that.

    I always thought they were in the brain.
     
    #5 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
  6. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    Though I am not willing to go as far as fred... I think it is helpful to read the perspectives of the CCEF people on these kinds of issues. Here is decent article/case study on bipolar disorder

    http://www.ccef.org/basics-about-bipolar-0

    I would generally say there are physical, even brain-related, and thyroid-related problems than can alter the way some people process. It does not make them sin, however.

    A very mild example of this is a woman with PMS (I'm married, and have wonderful wife). I know that my wife at the time of her period can be more iritable than normal and more likely to snap at me (verbally...:smilewinkgrin:). But she has often apologized for such snaps, telling me that the way she feels did not give her an excuse to treat me badly.

    The fact that I know this does not mean I snap back at her and accuse her of giving in to her PMS feelings...Rather, I need to give her more grace and leeway at those times, and usually she will apologize without me saying anything.

    A person with a brain or chemical issue could be caused to feel differently, but whether they are on or off their drugs, they need to be counseled to seek to please God at all times.
     
    #6 12strings, Apr 26, 2012
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Hey Fred.....looks like you have
    Oppositional Defiant Disorder
     
    #7 Iconoclast, Apr 26, 2012
  8. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    As I have said, as soon as someone can show me a photograph of a mind, I will change my perspective.

    My medical books show every part of the human body, including every area of the human brain. I have not found one picture of a mind any any of my books.

    If you can find a picture of a mind, perhaps you can submit it to the AMA and be famous for being the first one to show the world what a mind looks like.
     
    #8 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    A person who is sinning and knows that they are sinning and doesn't give a hoot isn't under the influence of an illness. They are under the influence of sin and they need to repent.

    A genuine illness - even something such as PMS (which is not an illness, but a symptom) - can overtake you without you knowing it. Not all women have PMS. I do. Sometimes, I have lost my temper and am not even aware of it until someone's eyes widen or someone says "Are you angry?" And sometimes I feel so angry and want to scream and I AM aware of it and have to work so hard to fight it. I have to literally clamp my jaws shut and force a smile. It isn't easy. I do not have an illness, but I understand - granted to a minor degree - how people diagnosed with a mental illness suffer in trying to maintain control. I've seen these bi-polar and depressed people behave irrationally and it's obvious to me that they are not even aware of it. Sometimes they are and I've watched them struggle.

    Poor behavior on the part of someone with a diagnosed illness is sometimes not noticed by the person. That's why they are classified as ill.

    As a side note - if you are a husband with a wife who suffers from extreme PMS and you feel like sometimes she is taking it out on you - think about this. She really is fighting it as best she can and maybe a delivery man comes to the door and she is very pleasant or your mother calls and she is very pleasant and then she turns around the next minute and bites your head off - please have sympathy for her. For many wives who suffer with extreme PMS - they find solace in their relationship with you and unfortunately that means that they feel less on their guard around you and perhaps they lessen their "fight" with their emotions around you and lose it more often with you.

    Talk to her when she's not having these symptoms and tell you how it makes you feel. Tell her, "Baby, you remember a couple of week ago when you said .....? Can we talk about that." Tell you that you feel like she's more snappy with you and ask her what you can do next time to help her get through those days. Make a plan if you have. A code word or something to let her know when she's crossed the line. Granted, if she's in the middle of a rant, she isn't going to care about that code word and might even have a "code word" for you, but at least a plan could be made and perhaps it might work.

    Trust me. Sometimes we are aware of it and we apologize and fight it. And literally, sometimes, those of us with the extreme symptoms are oblivious to how we affect others and need to be told.

    And sometimes - well, we just need hug.

    And sometimes - we just need a big old chunk of chocolate.

    And we really are sorry when we snap. And we hate it in ourselves.
     
    #9 Scarlett O., Apr 26, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
  10. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    The only good thing about my bi-polar disorder is that it is not PMS:smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:

    John
     
    #10 seekingthetruth, Apr 26, 2012
  11. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Do you have the mind of Christ?
     
    #11 agedman, Apr 26, 2012
  12. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Steadfast, I think you need to divide your understanding of the word mind, from your definition of the word "mental". Let me try to explain.

    A diabetic has problems with the level of sugar in his blood stream, but it isn't his blood that creates the problem, it's his pancreas.

    Similarly, a person with a mental illness has a problem controlling those things we consider and define as one's "mind", but the source of the problem lays within one's brain. It's not the mind that is the problem, but the brain, without which we cannot express those things we define as voluntary actions.

    Another example might be a person with MS. This is a disease of neurological tissues which make up the nervous system of which the brain is part. At first the symptoms may only be a tingling sensation, but as the disease progresses, the brain loses its ability to control voluntary things like making a fist or speaking and eventually involuntary things like breathing. The 'MIND' may want to walk, but the brain can't communicate the wishes of the mind to the legs.

    In a person with a "mental" illness the brain is running wild and the mind is suppressed. The malfunctioning brain is controlling the mind instead of the other way around.
     
    #12 menageriekeeper, Apr 26, 2012
  13. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    The word mental pertains to the mind, it is not a physical tangible object that one can see, feel, taste, smell or hear.

    Being immaterial, it cannot acquire illnesses.
     
    #13 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
  14. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Websters gives two definitions for illness. One is disease. Since the mind is immaterial, it is impossible for the mind to get ill under this definition.

    The second definition is wickedness. Mental wickedness? Well, it appears that refers to sin and not some fabricated sickness concocted by a pharmaceutical company in order to push pills on the unsuspecting public.
     
    #14 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
  15. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    Really? Then explain to me what happened in Adam and Eve's minds when they ate fruit? They had both a perfectly functioning mind and a perfectly functioning brain. Yet before they ate the fruit, they didn't recognize the difference between right and wrong. So what changed if the immaterial mind cannot be affected by illness, injury or defect?
     
    #15 menageriekeeper, Apr 26, 2012
  16. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    I wasn't in the Garden and have never spoken to Adam or Eve, so I do not know what was going through their minds except by what is written in the Word of God.

    And the Word of God nowhere implies they had a mental illness.
     
    #16 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
  17. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    no but their minds certainly changed. You say the mind cannot be affected by the corruption of this earth, but something changed inside of Adam and Eve and that change was precipitated by God's curse on this earth.

    And Webster was just a man who lived well over a hundred years ago. The definitions of those times may or may not represent our reality as language is fluid and changes constantly.
     
    #17 menageriekeeper, Apr 26, 2012
  18. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    You are bearing false witness against me, mk. I never said the mind could not be affected. I said the mind does not get ill.

    Now, unless you can show me a picture of an ill mind, or an account of some neurourgeon describing how he operated on someone's brain and made an incision in the mind to remove some bug that made it ill, you ain't going to convince me I am wrong.
     
    #18 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
  19. padredurand

    padredurand Well-Known Member
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    Explain pain. Is it in the brain or the mind? You cannot hold, feel or put pain in a box. In your world pain should not exist.
     
    #19 padredurand, Apr 26, 2012
  20. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Pain is not in the mind either. When one smashes one's hand in the door, it is not the mind that feels the pain, it is the hand.
     
    #20 Steadfast Fred, Apr 26, 2012
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