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Poll: #2, Suicide & Lapsi

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E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
#2, Suicide & Lapsi

Suicide by Martyrdom

This is a continuation of the thread titled:
Do people which commit suicide automatically go to hell?

the first page of which is at:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36368

and the last page (#31) is located at:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36368&page=31

In addition, I'd like to talk about the major doctrinal discussion
of the 2ed Century (0101 - 0200AD) and 3rd Century (0201-0300AD):
Can a Lapsi go to heaven?

Lapsi - one who, after accepting Christ as Savior, publicly
denies Christ (usually to save their worthless life)

Read a whole web page (RCC) about the Lapsi at:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09001b.htm

Or, if you would like to write the Wikipedia article on Lapsi try at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsi
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Obviously this isn't a poll.
It says it is a poll, but isn't.
I hit a button wrong and can't go back. So sue me. :tonofbricks:
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Anyway, the poll (and of course, i could ask only one question at a time)
would have been:

1. Does a Christian who commits Suicide automatically
go to hell?

-Yes
-No
-Ignorance &/or Apathy: I don't know &/or I don't care


2. Can a Christian who becomes a Lapsi really go to heaven?

-Yes
-No
-Ignorance &/or Apathy: I don't know &/or I don't care
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
Ed Edwards said:
#2, Suicide & Lapsi

Suicide by Martyrdom

This is a continuation of the thread titled:
Do people which commit suicide automatically go to hell?

the first page of which is at:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36368

and the last page (#31) is located at:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36368&page=31

In addition, I'd like to talk about the major doctrinal discussion
of the 2ed Century (0101 - 0200AD) and 3rd Century (0201-0300AD):
Can a Lapsi go to heaven?

Lapsi - one who, after accepting Christ as Savior, publicly
denies Christ (usually to save their worthless life)

Read a whole web page (RCC) about the Lapsi at:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09001b.htm

Or, if you would like to write the Wikipedia article on Lapsi try at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapsi
Click to expand...

Jesus said, 'He that denieth me before men, him will I also deny before the Father.'

Seems cut and dried. Christ has to be true to His Word. No, a Lapsi will not go to heaven.
 
C

Claudia_T

New Member
I think a better way to do this is to do it backwards. When people were getting martyred, the only people who wanted to join the church were people who were really sincere about following Christ in the first place.

If you started out with knowing people would be martyred if you became a Christian, who would join up?

Mt:16:24: Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

Lk:14:28: For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?

Then after that, people stopped being martyred for their faith and all sorts of people joined the church. Falsehearted professors of faith.

Satan started by making people get persecuted if they read the Bible but then he just played a new card, he started just letting everyone join the church and he twisted the Bible.


Claudia
 
C

Claudia_T

New Member
Luke 14:
26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27: And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
28: For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
29: Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
30: Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.


Thats how its supposed to be from the start, before you even decide to join up


During trials and tribulations, that is when the real thoughts and intents of our hearts are revealed. For it is easy to conceal what we are really all about while things are going easy for us...

Luke 2
34: And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against;
35: (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.


Heb:12:
3: For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
4: Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
 
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E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
standingfirminChrist said:
Jesus said, 'He that denieth me before men, him will I also deny before the Father.'
Click to expand...

Uh, where is that?
Here is one that is close:
Luke 12:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
But he that denieth me before men,
shalbe denied before the Angels of God

standingfirminChrist said:
Seems cut and dried. Christ has to be true to His Word. No, a Lapsi will not go to heaven.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, the world really isn't black & white - there
are thousands of shades of grey NOT TO MENTION a whole
world of color.

Act 7:51 (KJV1611 Edition):
Ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in heart, and eares,
ye doe alwayes resist the holy Ghost?
as your fathers did, so doe ye.

Romans 10:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus,
and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.

A recendi has done these things:
1. confessed Jesus is Lord
2. denyed Jesus (by word or deed)
3. confessed Jesus is Lord

Were the Lapsi saved at 1, lost at 2, saved again at 3?
Were the Lapsi saved at 1, lost at 2, and can never get saved again?
Were the Lapsi saved at 1, backslidden at 2, can't be saved at 3
---cause they are still saved?
Were the Lapsi not saved at 1, but get saved at 3?
Were the Lapsi not saved at 1, and can't get saved at 3 because of 2?
all of the above?
none of the above?
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
Ed Edwards said:
Uh, where is that?
Here is one that is close:
Luke 12:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
But he that denieth me before men,
shalbe denied before the Angels of God



Unfortunately, the world really isn't black & white - there
are thousands of shades of grey NOT TO MENTION a whole
world of color.

Act 7:51 (KJV1611 Edition):
Ye stifnecked and vncircumcised in heart, and eares,
ye doe alwayes resist the holy Ghost?
as your fathers did, so doe ye.

Romans 10:9 (KJV1611 Edition):
That if thou shalt confesse with thy mouth the Lord Iesus,
and shalt beleeue in thine heart,
that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saued.

A recendi has done these things:
1. confessed Jesus is Lord
2. denyed Jesus (by word or deed)
3. confessed Jesus is Lord

Were the Lapsi saved at 1, lost at 2, saved again at 3?
Were the Lapsi saved at 1, lost at 2, and can never get saved again?
Were the Lapsi saved at 1, backslidden at 2, can't be saved at 3
---cause they are still saved?
Were the Lapsi not saved at 1, but get saved at 3?
Were the Lapsi not saved at 1, and can't get saved at 3 because of 2?
all of the above?
none of the above?
Click to expand...

Ed,

When Peter denied Christ, he later repented, and later became one of the greatest preachers known to man, seeing over 3000 in one day after he preached a sermon.

Question, is the lapsi going back before men and confessing Christ? or is he committing suicide because he is remorseful for denying Christ? As I said, Christ has to be true to His Word. The Lapsi denied Him. If he did not go back and confess Him before men, and committed suicide, Christ certainly denied Him before the Fahter.
 
E

Ed Edwards

<img src=/Ed.gif>
Claudia_T: //If you started out with knowing people
would be martyred if you became a Christian, who would join up?//

1. Sincere Christians
2. People with Suicidal tendancies

I had a stray phrase in the Opening post:
'Suicide by Martyrdom'
Does that ever happen?
Is it a 'sin' to do it?
 
R

rbell

Active Member
SFIC is at least consistent.

He has the notion that if you die with any unconfessed sin in your life, you go to hell.

Wrong, but consistent.

I'm more puzzled by folks that have a list of sins they've decided God isn't strong enough to forgive.

I'm also frustrated that some (not many, but a couple) try and paint others as "pro-suicide" or assert that we don't think it's wrong...just because we don't believe suicide, though sinful, sends one to hell on the "fast track."
 
C

Claudia_T

New Member
I dont see this as an issue of God forgiving sin, I see it as a person having either a loyalty to God or else being a rebel against God and I dont think rebels will be in heaven. God is "strong enough" to forgive any sin but that isnt the issue.

I suppose that we cannot really know in every individual case (or really any case for that matter) whether or not a person would be "saved" since we dont know the heart and every single circumstance.
But I do know that rebels wont be in Heaven. Only those who are loyal to God and who truly love God will be there. Or else the rebellion would start up again.
 
R

rbell

Active Member
Claudia_T said:
I suppose that we cannot really know in every individual case (or really any case for that matter) whether or not a person would be "saved" since we dont know the heart and every single circumstance.
Click to expand...

Yes. Exactly. I agree with you.

No doubt that if someone commits suicide, there was something seriously wrong--emotionally, maybe physically, chemically, and spiritually.

But it's not our call to make...mis-application of a passage aside. It's God's.
 
A

Amy.G

New Member
Claudia_T said:
I dont see this as an issue of God forgiving sin, I see it as a person having either a loyalty to God or else being a rebel against God and I dont think rebels will be in heaven. God is "strong enough" to forgive any sin but that isnt the issue.

I suppose that we cannot really know in every individual case (or really any case for that matter) whether or not a person would be "saved" since we dont know the heart and every single circumstance.
But I do know that rebels wont be in Heaven. Only those who are loyal to God and who truly love God will be there. Or else the rebellion would start up again.
Click to expand...
This was my point ALL along that you and SFIC continued to argue about. I'm glad you finally see that we do not know what's in a person's heart and have zero right to judge.
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Click to expand...
Even though those who make a profession of faith and appear righteous before man, their end shall be according to their works... Their evil will be revealed in the end.

Suicides were only appearing as ministers of righteousness.

The manner of tree was revealed by the evil fruit of suicide.
 
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