Poll: #2, Suicide & Lapsi

[Claudia_T]

makes me glad I have Shiloh on ignore, wow he/she really has this goat thing out of whack... and they think they have to just keep repeating that falsehood about what SDAs believe on just about every thread... its bizarre. I almost thing I ought to put a link on my thingy here permanently where people can just go read what we REALLY teach about it if this person is going to keep on and on and on and on doing this.

and on and on... oh sorry..


oh well... I guess ya have to expect this kind of thing.

 

[rbell]

So, you just go ahead and deny God's Word.

So is it your mission to throw that perjorative out once per page? Regardless of its veracity?

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Questioning another poster's salvation shows no class and I believe violates the rules here.

You owe DeeJay an apology...

but being as I've never seen anything remotely resembling a retraction, apology, or the like from you, we'll all refrain from holding our breath.

But you might want to confess this sin so you won't go to hell.:saint:

Oh wait...I forgot...you haven't answered it...

If you were to die with one unconfessed sin, would you go to hell?
(take #10)

If it violates rules, then it is not just I who question people's salvation on here. I have seen moderators and other posters who have made the same accusations in text as well. And I commend them for it.

But regardless, The Bible says Paul named names, others did to. When the Spirit tells me to preach against sin, I am not going to candy coat it as you guys are doing.

 

[rbell]

Not that I agree with every single part others are saying but basically doesnt the Bible say in effect that what you DO NOT DO does have something to do with your salvation? Just as well as what you DO DO? lol!

AND OF COURSE THE BIGGEST IS WE RELY ON THE BLOOD OF THE CRUCIFIED AND RISEN SAVIOUR...

but that DOESNT NEGATE THE FACT THAT WHAT WE DR DONT DO does have something to do with whether or not we are allowed into heaven right?

We go to heaven because of Christ's redeeming work. Period.

But, because Christ has redeemed us, we should live holy lives.

A life completely absent of the evidence of Christ's redeeming work indicates serious issues, and very likely no salvation...

But a singluar sin is not a disqualification for salvation, nor does it revoke salvation, nor does it mean the person could not possibly be saved.

Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is another issue and discussion, but that sin, according to Christ, is in a class by itself.

Rv:21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

here we go again...

SO if you die fearful, if you die after a lie, if you die because of a drug overdose...you have a down elevator ticket automatically?

Look at the preceding verses:

Revelation 21:6-7: He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

verse 8 is a word picture of those who die without Christ. It is descriptive (they are condemned, and here's what they are like)--just as verse 6 is descriptive ("he who is thirsty"). It is not a comprehensive AND causative verse...in other words, Revelation 21:8 does not list all the sins that can send one to hell. Only one sin is needed! This verse is NOT saying, "these are the sins you will be condemned for--whether you have confessed 'Jesus is Lord' or not."

I do believe that there are rewards in heaven, and some will receive more than others. I do believe that someone who dies with unconfessed sin in their life will quite likely see fewer rewards. But I also believe it is possible for something like this to happen:

Joe is a Christian man in his forties. He asked Jesus into his heart at age fifteeen. He has been baptized, teaches Sunday School, and witnesses to his neighbors. He spends time with God each morning. On this day, he is in his car. Just then, his cell phone rings. It's a business client he forgot to call that day. The client says, "Joe, I called you earlier and was waiting on your call." The Christian says, "Oh, I was just about to give you a call." (a lie)

He is distracted by the phone call, and does not see the light turn red. He plows into a dump truck and is killed instantly.

Now...he told a lie. That makes him a liar. And according to some, he cannot go to heaven.

What a load.

 

[rbell]

If it violates rules, then it is not just I who question people's salvation on here. I have seen moderators and other posters who have made the same accusations in text as well. And I commend them for it.

1. Um, so, if others do it it's OK? That's weak.
2. Is your name "His Blood Spoke My Name?" Are you his attorney? I was talking to HBSMN.

 

[tinytim]

Questioning another poster's salvation shows no class and I believe violates the rules here.

You owe DeeJay an apology...

but being as I've never seen anything remotely resembling a retraction, apology, or the like from you, we'll all refrain from holding our breath.

But you might want to confess this sin so you won't go to hell.:saint:

Oh wait...I forgot...you haven't answered it...

If you were to die with one unconfessed sin, would you go to hell?
(take #10)

SFIC, why are you not answering this?

 

[Claudia_T]

to me thats just baloney....

condition: If you write all over the walls you arent going to get to go to the school prom. article 15, pg 2

condition: You need to be in good with the principle to get to go to the prom. article 13, pg 1


you show up at the gate.. and are asked why you should be allowed in...

you ARE in good with the principle but you wrote all over the walls...

"I should be allowed in because Im in good with the principle"..

did you write all over the walls though?

YES


Ok well come on in then!


glad I dont live in YOUR universe...


I think at this point you might be hearing something like this...

"I sorry but you dont KNOW the principle because if you DID you wouldnt have been writing all over the school walls since He told you not to"...


"Depart from Me, I never KNEW you, ye that work iniquity"


More like that...


I think you are forgetting the "Know Me" part of this entire thing.


Ummmmmmmmmm He slams the door in their face?


well thats what MY Bible says...



1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I KNOW him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.


Mt:7:23: And then will I profess unto them, I never KNEW you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity [lawlessness].

 

[rbell]

to me thats just baloney....

condition: If you write all over the walls you arent going to get to go to the school prom. article 15, pg 2

condition: You need to be in good with the principle to get to go to the prom. article 13, pg 1


you show up at the gate.. and are asked why you should be allowed in...

you ARE in good with the principle but you wrote all over the walls...

"I should be allowed in because Im in good with the principle"..

did you write all over the walls though?

YES


Ok well come on in then!


glad I dont live in YOUR universe...

Well...my universe tells me that "all have sinned"
My universe tells me that "none are good--except God alone."
My universe tells me "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

My universe is pretty cool...you ought to stop by sometime.

 

[Claudia_T]

Well...my universe tells me that "all have sinned"
My universe tells me that "none are good--except God alone."
My universe tells me "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

My universe is pretty cool...you ought to stop by sometime.

NOPE because Mine also says this:


Rom:6:2: God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom:6:15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


and I dont intend on dismissing it or ripping it outta my Bible..


its there for a reason.


This is called A CONDITION:

1Jn:3:15: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

there are things that are CONDITIONAL in the Bible, like it or not...


like, you can live in your community AS LONG AS you dont go around gunning down your neighbor..

Heaven is the same way...

 

[J. Jump]

Claudia I sent you a PM yesterday. Don't know if you got it or not.

 

[tinytim]

You see.. for your analogy to work, the principle took the penalty for writing on the wall.

We sin, but God came down, took on human flesh, (Jesus) lived a sinless life, and then died a sacrificial death in which the penalty for all our sins... past, present and future was placed on Jesus at the cross.

The only thing left is for us to say, "I accept what you did on the cross for me" Then trust Jesus to take you to Heaven...
That is why I said that you must fully trust Jesus to get to heaven... without fully trusting him, you will go to Hell.

Sin must be paid for ( I think that is something we all agree on)
1) you can either pay for it for eternity in Hell
2) You can accept what Christ did as payment.

But you cannot do both.
When you ask God to apply Christ's blood to your life, He applies it. Washes away all your sins.. past, present, and future.

You are at that point declared righteous. A legal declaration that cannot be reversed. That is Justification

That does not mean you will be righteous, or perfect, but when you study the concept of Justification, you will find that it is a legal declaration that declares you "as not guilty"

So when God looks at you after you are saved, He see's Christ's righteousness. If he sends you to Hell, He would have to say that what Christ did was useless.

Once He knows you as His, He can never say He doesn't know you.

 

[Claudia_T]

Im not going along with the "cant be reversed" thing

 

[Claudia_T]

Hey JJ

Yeah I got it and read it but hadnt read the other thing as of yet... yet


because it was pretty late in the evening when I realized you had sent me one.

 

[J. Jump]

Okay . . . just wanted to make sure you got it I have sent PMs to folks before and they never were answered and come to find out they didn't even know that existed or what it was Never know I guess.

 

[webdog]

Im not going along with the "cant be reversed" thing

Then you are the exception to "no man can pluck them from My hand".

 

[Claudia_T]

No man except for yourself. Because you yourself decide what you want.

God isnt a rapist. He "stands at the door and knocks".


He doesnt drag us around by the hair all unwilling on our part.

Jn:6:66: From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Hebrews 6
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[webdog]

No man except for yourself. Because you yourself decide what you want.

God isnt a rapist. He "stands at the door and knocks".


He doesnt drag us around by the hair all unwilling on our part.

Jn:6:66: From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

Hebrews 6
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

No man means just that...no man. "Except for yourself" doesn't work. If you are the exception to "no man", the passage is a lie.

 

[Claudia_T]

is this a lie?

Hebrews 6
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


You cannot be plucked from Jesus hand if you dont want to be. true.



"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life."

Notice it does not say BELIEVED with an ed at the end??? like in the past tense?

 

[rbell]

Re-posting my example:
Joe is a Christian man in his forties. He asked Jesus into his heart at age fifteeen. He has been baptized, teaches Sunday School, and witnesses to his neighbors. He spends time with God each morning. On this day, he is in his car. Just then, his cell phone rings. It's a business client he forgot to call that day. The client says, "Joe, I called you earlier and was waiting on your call." The Christian says, "Oh, I was just about to give you a call." (a lie)

He is distracted by the phone call, and does not see the light turn red. He plows into a dump truck and is killed instantly.

Is Joe in hell? He's a liar, after all...

 

[Claudia_T]

Re-posting my example:
Joe is a Christian man in his forties. He asked Jesus into his heart at age fifteeen. He has been baptized, teaches Sunday School, and witnesses to his neighbors. He spends time with God each morning. On this day, he is in his car. Just then, his cell phone rings. It's a business client he forgot to call that day. The client says, "Joe, I called you earlier and was waiting on your call." The Christian says, "Oh, I was just about to give you a call." (a lie)

He is distracted by the phone call, and does not see the light turn red. He plows into a dump truck and is killed instantly.

Is Joe in hell? He's a liar, after all...

If thats all you have to go on.... of course not. Just as the thief on the cross wasnt capable of coming down off the cross...

2Cor:8:12: For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not.

This is a prime example of how you guys all seem to wind God right up to some legalistic tyrant... then you turn around after doing that and say "see? I cant possibly do what God says so Im tossing out anything where He commands me to do anything"

Its just not right!


Here are you guys ...a picture painted for you... God never REALLY asks people to do whats impossible for them to do but He goes along with this guys EXCUSE...


Matthew 25
24: Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25: And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26: His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27: Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.


God is saying, after the guy *sighs* and says Lord I knew you are a terrible legalistic Tyrant, expecting me to do the impossible.... so I went and just buried my talent...


God answers, well if you REALLY thought I was this way... well why didnt you then DO AS I ASKED?