Poll: #2, Suicide & Lapsi

[Claudia_T]

When I myself read James 2 telling us that if we offend in one point we are guilty of all... I look at the verses before and after it, and it sure isnt telling me not to worry about keeping the Law.


Its saying the exact opposite.



James 2:
7: Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12: So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13: For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14: What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?


...and the whole rest of that passage is telling us that if we say we have faith but no works we are in big trouble because faith without works is dead.


so I dont know how anybody could pick that part of it out of there and make it seem like right in the middle of all of that its telling us not to worry about keeping the law, if anything, its telling us that we cannot expect to pick and choose which parts of the law we like and ignore the rest. Because if you violate part of it you are violating it all because it operates as a whole.... being love God and love your neighbor. You either love God and your neighbor or you dont... so any violation of the law is violating the entire thing.

The conclusion isnt not to worry anymore about sin... and the conclusion isnt ..dont worry drunkards and murderers will be in heaven, either.

 

[DHK]

When I myself read James 2 telling us that if we offend in one point we are guilty of all... I look at the verses before and after it, and it sure isnt telling me not to worry about keeping the Law.

Its saying the exact opposite.

Again you remain confused.
He is using the law (Ten Commandments), not as a law to keep. That is not his purpose, but rather to show that one cannot keep the Ten Commandments. The key verse is in verse 10. It is impossible to keep the Ten Commandments. The purpose of the Law is to point us to our sin, not to keep the letter of the law. You have it wrong. The point of his illustration of using the law is to show that we are all sinners unable to keep the law.
The same truth is demonstrated in Ga.3:10.

 

[Claudia_T]

Again you remain confused.
He is using the law (Ten Commandments), not as a law to keep. That is not his purpose, but rather to show that one cannot keep the Ten Commandments. The key verse is in verse 10. It is impossible to keep the Ten Commandments. The purpose of the Law is to point us to our sin, not to keep the letter of the law. You have it wrong. The point of his illustration of using the law is to show that we are all sinners unable to keep the law.
The same truth is demonstrated in Ga.3:10.

But look at all the verses before it... it is telling you to stop having repsect for rich persons who come to your church with nice clothes on...then it says TO love your neighbor in verse 8.

So why then RIGHT AFTER THAT would it say "because if you violate one principle of the law you have broken the entire thing" ???

why would he be telling you after saying that "oh but no need to worry about it though" ?

James 2
1: My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2: For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3: And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5: Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6: But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7: Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

-------
10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12: So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

As I stated in my previous posts, God will not condone sin. All means alll.

If you commit willfull sin, and die in that very instant, then by the authority of God's Word, you are in the class of liars mentioned in Revelation 8, in the class of murderers, in every class mentioned there.

If God says, 'You are forgiven, come on in; even though He said in His Word that all liars, murderers, etc., will go to the lake of fire. That would be contrary to His Word.

No, I did not post those posts in anger, or with malice in my heart, as you accuse me of. I posted them because as ministers of God we are commanded to. And anyone who claims to be of Christ who denies the truth of the Scripture, I will call on. And I encourage HBSMN to continue as well.

 

[DHK]

As I stated in my previous posts, God will not condone sin. All means alll.

No, I did not post those posts in anger, or with malice in my heart, as you accuse me of. I posted them because as ministers of God we are commanded to. And anyone who claims to be of Christ who denies the truth of the Scripture, I will call on. And I encourage HBSMN to continue as well.

You have never made a false accusation on this board, never?
If I ask other members to verify this I am sure they may say differently.
A false accusation is a lie.

 

[DeeJay]

Amen, Sister DeeJay -- You are so right on. :thumbs:

I say as a Christian Male and Christian Elder:

You can not honestly believe that this man {the living
saint, the dying liar} is unsaved
because of this. If so I am speechless. You have a lot
of judgement for somebody who has been given so much grace.

SISTER

Ouch, I will try to sound more manly in my posts in the future. :laugh:

 

[DeeJay]

But look at all the verses before it... it is telling you to stop having repsect for rich persons who come to your church with nice clothes on...then it says TO love your neighbor in verse 8.

So why then RIGHT AFTER THAT would it say "because if you violate one principle of the law you have broken the entire thing" ???

why would he be telling you after saying that "oh but no need to worry about it though" ?

James 2
1: My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2: For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3: And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
4: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5: Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
6: But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
7: Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8: If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

-------
10: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11: For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12: So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

I dont think he is saying you dont have to worry about it. I do think he is trying to show how futile it is to try to be saved by the law.

 

[Shiloh]

I can't believe this thread is still going.
1. An old fellow that believes in the Security of the believer yet believes that if he, ah I mean any body else sins they go to hell.
2. A confused blond SDA's who talks like her tongue is hinged in the middle and flops at both ends. If she knew the "TRUTH" she wouldn't be a SDA!

It's not that hard folks.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. You either are Saved or you are not(.)

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It's not that hard to do
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Even a child can do it, Mt.18

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Paul said

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. If Paul was persuaded that's good enough for me.........even though he was a murderer.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. From the guttermost to the uttermost.

Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; David said it right folks...It's not our Salvation it's HIS! We don't save ourselves and we don't keep ourselves.

PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinoybaptist
This was in AmyG's post, but I don't know if she was the original poster of these words:



An example, please, of how good works is done through faith and the power of God.

Thank you.

-------------------------------




The Bible tells us that we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us...

Phil:4:13: I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.


By faith we must take hold of His power to overcome sin.

in 2Peter it talks about how "the elect" are to DO certain things to be "partakers of the divine nature" of Christ. To "make your calling and election sure" and that you will be granted an entrance into heaven...


Right IN the passage it tells us how, it is by grasping ahold of the promises of God (see verse 4):


2Pt:
3: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5: And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6: And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7: And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8: For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9: But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


There are MANY Bible promises about overcoming sin, about God's power, and so on... you just have to grasp ahold of those promises through faith.

Believing that Jesus is working IN you through His Holy Spirit... when temptation comes... and actually all day long...


It is hard to put it into words... but it is actually God working IN you...

and if you spend time each day beholding God by studying His Scriptures in order to get a more clear picture of Him... you will come to KNOW HIM more and more and thus you will trust Him. If you trust God then you will believe His promises.


Claudia

Amen, Sister Claudia -- you are so RIGHT ON! :thumbs:

 

[standingfirminChrist]

You have never made a false accusation on this board, never?
If I ask other members to verify this I am sure they may say differently.
A false accusation is a lie.

If I am lying for telling what the Word of God says, then God is the liar, for it is His Word.

Just because others say I am lying does not make it so. Especially when what I have said lines up with the Word of God.

I am surprised you would agree with those who would say murderers and liars and drunkards will be in Heaven.

 

[Bro Tony]

I can't believe this thread is still going.
1. An old fellow that believes in the Security of the believer yet believes that if he, ah I mean any body else sins they go to hell.
2. A confused blond SDA's who talks like her tongue is hinged in the middle and flops at both ends. If she knew the "TRUTH" she wouldn't be a SDA!

It's not that hard folks.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. You either are Saved or you are not(.)

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It's not that hard to do
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Even a child can do it, Mt.18

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Paul said

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. If Paul was persuaded that's good enough for me.........even though he was a murderer.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. From the guttermost to the uttermost.

Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; David said it right folks...It's not our Salvation it's HIS! We don't save ourselves and we don't keep ourselves.

PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS.

As Ed would say--Amen Bro Shiloh, Preach IT!

BTW..My daughter's name is Shiloh.

Bro Tony

 

[DHK]

As I stated in my previous posts, God will not condone sin. All means alll.

All means all.
God does not condone sin of anykind including false accusations and lies.
All liars shall have their part in the lake of fire along with the drunkards and others.
Now look at a summary of your own quotes in just this thread alone and see if, by your own theology, you condemn yourself:

Bob, with all due respect, I am not judging Charlie. God's Word has judged the man. He is in hell. (post #200)

--You already judged Charle. You were the prosecutor, judge and jury. You gave the sentence of eternal condemnation without even God's permission. You condemned him to Hell. You don't even know if he repented before he died. You are a hypocrite in that sense. Only God knows the heart; but here you claim to know Charlie's heart.

Just in case that is not cut and dried to you with scales over your eyes, here is one more.

(same post—not posting with grace, and possible lie. Just because it is a disagreement it is not a lie, as implied)

It is not I who will bunk with Charlie, but those found in Revelation 21:8. And right now, you do fit in that category. (post #202)

--How do you know this? Again you presume to take upon yourself God's omniscience and judge the heart of man.

Shiloh

, I did not know you were a Hylesite (post 239)

--No doubt, a false accusation. Can you prove this to be true?

Post 243 in response to Rbell:

If it violates rules, then it is not just I who question people's salvation on here.

---Questioning a person’s salvation is no doubt a false allegation, especially if that person is saved. Who are you to judge?

Again, if you were to die of a sudden heart attack with such statements hanging over your head, where would you end up?

 

[Bro Tony]

If I am lying for telling what the Word of God says, then God is the liar, for it is His Word.

Just because others say I am lying does not make it so. Especially when what I have said lines up with the Word of God.

I am surprised you would agree with those who would say murderers and liars and drunkards will be in Heaven.

Translation...SFIC is God's only arbitrator of truth. No one else understands. If he says it, it comes from God!

Bro Tony

 

[tragic_pizza]

DHK, I am truly impressed.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

I can't believe this thread is still going.
1. An old fellow that believes in the Security of the believer yet believes that if he, ah I mean any body else sins they go to hell.
2. A confused blond SDA's who talks like her tongue is hinged in the middle and flops at both ends. If she knew the "TRUTH" she wouldn't be a SDA!

It's not that hard folks.
1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. You either are Saved or you are not(.)

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. It's not that hard to do
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Even a child can do it, Mt.18

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Paul said

Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. If Paul was persuaded that's good enough for me.........even though he was a murderer.

Heb 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. From the guttermost to the uttermost.

Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; David said it right folks...It's not our Salvation it's HIS! We don't save ourselves and we don't keep ourselves.

PRAISE THE LORD FOR HIS FINISHED WORK ON THE CROSS.

Shiloh,

do you not notice that Paul did not mention sin in those thiings that will not separate us from the Love of God? Want to know why? Because sin will separate us from a Holy God. God hates all workers of iniquity. The pig returning to its mire, the dog returning to its vomit, are pictures of sinful man returning to sin. He returned to the sin nature. Why? Because the child of God cannot sin because His seed remains in Him.

Oh but you may say I am preaching a false doctrine. Well, its the Word of God. But we still sin, each one of us. True, but the child of God will not remain in sin. He will confess that sin and God will be faithful and forgive. But according to His Word, the one must confess. That's the Gospel.

If one dies in a willfull sin, that one was just revealing what manner of man he truly was.

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally Posted by Shiloh
I can't believe this thread is still going.
1. An old fellow that believes in the Security of the believer yet believes that if he, ah I mean any body else sins they go to hell.
2. A confused blond SDA's who talks like her tongue is hinged in the middle and flops at both ends. If she knew the "TRUTH" she wouldn't be a SDA!


-----------------------


Its just that you arent used to hearing someone actually take two Bible verses that seem to contradict each other, and let them both have their own weight, taking them both into account instead of tossing out the one you dont like. Thats why it seems to you as if I am talking out of both sides of my mouth.

And thats why it seems like you yourself are only talking out of one side of your mouth, since you only see one side of things. The side you want to see.

..but thats allright, maybe someday you will be able to multi-task...

And Im hurt that you didnt mention the goat this time, I have come to expect it of you and nearly look forward to it.


Claudia

 

[standingfirminChrist]

Translation...SFIC is God's only arbitrator of truth. No one else understands. If he says it, it comes from God!

Bro Tony

And now Tony has joined inthe lies against me. No surprise.

 

[standingfirminChrist]

DHK,

I do question the salvation of many of the posters in this room. I also question the salvation of any moderator, and yes any admin who denies what the Word of God says and any who call me a liar for agreeing with the Word of God.

 

[Bro Tony]

And now Tony has joined inthe lies against me. No surprise.

Would have hoped you would have come to an understanding of grace and that our salvation is in the hands of God, not ourself. Should have known that you would not have change in that you are the only one who truly understands, as you have never been wrong in this forum:BangHead: . I am truly glad that you're not our judge, for you cannot judge with righteous judgment as you claim you can. Judgment has been given to the Son, and His judgment is true and right. So, your graceless view of the weak effective power of His blood is meaningless. All it does is continue to reveal your ignorance of the Word of God. The pity is that in your ignorance you actually believe you are speaking for God. Pitiful. And by the way I haven't seen anyone lie about you, please point those out. And if you are going to accuse me of lying about you, please point that out, as I don't want to be guilty of a willful sin:tongue3:

Bro Tony

 

[Bro Tony]

DHK,

I do question the salvation of many of the posters in this room. I also question the salvation of any moderator, and yes any admin who denies what the Word of God says and any who call me a liar for agreeing with the Word of God.

So you willfully sin by agreeing to the rules of this forum and then blatantly breaking them? You word is good for nothing, by your own admission.

Bro Tony