Pre- Tribulation or Post-Tribulation???

[webdog]

umm... the 7 years of tribulation and God's wrath are different.

the bible does say we are not appointed unto wrath. and the seven vials are God's wrath.

the antichrist's "wrath" is at a different time then God's wrath (7 vials)
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what's the purpose of the church going through the tribulation?

because it needs it. desperately. i think you know what i mean.

Wrath is wrath. The text doesn't say we are not appointed unto (God's) wrath. The antichrist is a tool God will use to show His wrath against the jews.

 

[gekko]

Romans 5:9 - Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

where is that verse you speak of "not appointed unto wrath" ?

 

[TaliOrlando]

This is a very dangerous way to operate. You are basically saying that God's Word doesn't matter. We had a couple of Sunday School classes where we would start to discuss controversial issues and in the end people would say it doesn't matter, because it doesn't affect my salvation.

That is just a copout for not wanting to understand the more meatier subjects of Scripture. They do matter or God would not have revealed it to us. If it's in there it is in there for a reason and a purpose and we should seek the Spirit guidance to the Truth!

I totally agree with you. We live in such a fast paced world that we have become so used for everything coming to us fast. Many think the Bible is Burger King
" Have it your way " But its not your way its GOD's WAY!!!! God intented for us to read and study the bible so we can get revelation from his word so we can preach this gospel and get as many people saved as possible for the GLory of GOd. Now and days if we dont understand something we say " Ahh that aint important" or " Who cares " Well if God thought it was important enough for it to be in the BIBLE its important. God Bless !!!!!

Hosea 4


6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
"Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
I also will ignore your children.

 

[webdog]

where is that verse you speak of "not appointed unto wrath" ?

1Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

1Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Notice the text doesn't say "God's wrath"...but just "wrath".

Collosians 3:6 Because of these, God's wrath comes on the disobedient,

Romans 1:18 For God's wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth,

In Christ, we are righteous...and certainly not "godless".

 

[David Michael Harris]

When we are in heaven ( which is coming soon ), we would have been through the Great Tribulation...

Surley!

David

Lord Jesus come.
Baruch haba b'shem Adonai

 

[gekko]

1Thessalonians 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

notice that verse has nothing to do with the endtimes...

1Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead--Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

and this verse further supports my beliefs...

 

[webdog]

notice that verse has nothing to do with the endtimes...

You're right. It has to do with wrath...in all times, endtimes included.

and this verse further supports my beliefs...

I don't see how. Martyrdom at the hands of the antichrist is hardly escaping "wrath".

 

[gekko]

For God did not appoint us to wrath...
the wrath to come. the lake of fire. etc.

nothing to do with endtimes. sorry.

martyrdom is not a form of wrath. its giving Glory to God.
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i notice you dont want to go through anything. just wanna dodge it all.
i admire your persistance.

there will be those who say "where is the promise of his coming?"

i wonder why they would say that... the only reason they would say that is because they are going through something terrible and they thought Christ should have come to take them away from it...

 

[BobRyan]

When we are in heaven ( which is coming soon ), we would have been through the Great Tribulation...

Surley!

David

Lord Jesus come.
Baruch haba b'shem Adonai

And so also those saints slaughtered in the dark ages of mankind - the golden age of the RCC

 

[BobRyan]

post-trib, pre-mill, Raptured-up-to-heaven with Christ at the 2nd coming.

Like it says in Matt 24.

Quote:
The time line according to Matthew 24

1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end

 

[webdog]

For God did not appoint us to wrath...
the wrath to come. the lake of fire. etc.

nothing to do with endtimes. sorry.

That's your personal exegesis, and not what the Bible says. 1 and 2 Thessalonians deal with pre trib exlusively.

martyrdom is not a form of wrath. its giving Glory to God.

Martyrdom is a result of wrath...that of the antichrist (and by extension God).

i notice you dont want to go through anything. just wanna dodge it all.
i admire your persistance.

And you do?!? You can get a head start and head over to Iraq and distribute Bibles and preach. You'll be a martyr in no time. Are Christians supposed to want to be martyred? Why do Christians all over the world meet in secret where Chrisitanity results in martyrdom?

What "blessed hope" do you think Paul is speaking about...suffering at the hands of the AC?

i wonder why they would say that... the only reason they would say that is because they are going through something terrible and they thought Christ should have come to take them away from it...

Who are "they"?

 

[gekko]

who are they?

well read that section of scripture before you ask that.

 

[webdog]

who are they?

well read that section of scripture before you ask that.

You didn't post any, my point.

 

[gekko]

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

there you go. i may be cherry picking. but i dont know.

 

[webdog]

there you go. i may be cherry picking. but i dont know.

I don't think that verse is describing the church going through the tribulation, but false teachers.

 

[gekko]

take account of the exodus. and the plagues.

Israel went through every single plague. not every plague affected them. but some did.

we as the church will go through the tribulation. through the 7 years. (you pre-tribs and mid-tribs are the same...) and will take us up before the 7 vials.

but then there's the seven thunders in between there somehwere. i wonder what those are gonna be like?

 

[billwald]

Thanks

"WOW!!! I pray raying: that the lord blesses you and everything goes better. It seems as if you are going through a difficult time with your personal tribulation and I pray that the lord blesses you big time!!!"

Appreciate all prayer!!!!!

Personally things are going very well and I have no personal complaints agaist God or man. I lived through the best times in the best place that the working man has seen in the history of the world and I am very thankful. I hever had a problem that wasn't my own faullt.

At the same time, it bothers me that most people in most parts of the world are having hard times because of human greed and whatever. We could produce sufficient food, clothing, and shelter for twice the world population. Most starvation and war is caused because one tribe is trying to kill off another tribe.

 

[Revmitchell]

Pre-trib isnt just about escaping wrath but it is also about the end of the church age. The trib period being the seventieth week for the Jews. The church has no part in this week.

We have to be careful in aplying sections of Matthew to the church. So much of it only has application for the Jews. Especially Matt 24. Then again I am a dispensationalist.

 

[J. Jump]

Pre-trib isnt just about escaping wrath but it is also about the end of the church age.

Hey it's been a while, but Rev. Mitchell and I have found something we can agree upon :thumbs: Well except I wouldn't call it the church age, but the church dispensation :laugh: We can't completely agree can we?

Here is a chart that I created for myself, because I'm more of a visual person.

God established the timeline in the first two chapters of Genesis, and He is working six days (6,000 years) in order to redeem a fallen material creation just like He did in the first six days. He rested on the seventh and He will rest again on the seventh day (the seventh 1000-year period).

 

[BobRyan]

Nice "picture".

Where is "God's Day" mentioned?