Pre-tribulation rapture

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Ed Edwards,
... The word 'rapture' is Biblical
and comes from the Latin Vulgate
of about 490AD ('Rapture the Latin Transatlion of
"harpazo" which is translated in the KJV1769
as 'caught up'.

GE

The KJV's is an unfortunate rendering. The first readers of that Translation never were confused by it despite. The 'rapture'-error evolved much later, and has NO foundation in the Scriptures. The word literally is "to be ceized together" (Mashall), as in a cloud together - only what Paul says. Everything visible, and nothing secretly.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I have a question. I have read that verse and have memorized it and I cannot see where you are seeing a pre-tribulation rapture in this verse.

To me,as a simple woman sees this verse given us believers a promise that Jesus is going to come again. I don't see a time line in this passage.

Would you please explain where in this verse says Jesus comes to get us BEFORE the tribulation let alone referring to a rapture. Thank you!

GE

Absolutely! And what blasphemous thought is it that Christ will come again but still won't be able to finish with sin, sinners and the devil, but will put the saved under still greater stress and anguish until at long last he may complete what He actually Returned for in the first place, in the twinkling of an eye! How on earth can people contemplate stuff like this?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

The age we are given to live in through the mercy of God is the Kingdom of His Christ - Colossians 2:15 for but one verse. The whole New Testament is filled with this assurance of the Faith. Christ is King of His Kingdom, the Kingdom of God, "on earth, as it is in heaven". Take hold of the priviledge, the honour, and the occasion, or loose out on the ONLY Kingdom of heaven this earth this side of Christ's return, shall ever witness!

Because it is the Kingdom and reign of Jesus Christ, it also is the Kindom under the co-reign of the saints His Elect - this day, "Today, as you hear His Voice, Hearden not your heart!" And therefore - because of this very witness of Jesus, of the saints today as it went out from day one and will continue to the hour "the Voice of the Son of Man shall be heard and the dead shall come forth from the graves", it shall be the Kingdom of the saints' tribulation, of their suffering, but also of their patience and faith. Faith, patience and perseverance presuppose tribulation. Tribulation is unreal without faith; and faith without tribulation.
Now if Christ should come and we be changed into incorruptibility, how then will tribulation - which can only be the tribulation of the faithful, still continue or even start? The wicked don't suffer tribulation; the children of God do!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Then where is the rapture of the church mentioned in RE?

If Jesus was caught up in 12:5, and 2 witnesses ascended up in Re 11:12,

where is the scene of the rapture of the whole church described in Rev?

Isn't that the moment which the whole church has been anticipating and eager to see and experience so much for 2000 years?

For the 2 witnesses, even the enemies were watching over them. Can you show anything like that? Don't repeat Re 7 which shows the great multitude coming out of the Tribulation, not by Rapture.

Your statement is of the form:

(Some one else says: the reasons why
blah-blah is A, B, & C.)

Give mea reason why blah-blah.
You cannot use reasons A, B, & C.

Obviously I can't show one the reasons when they
reject them in the question.

I hope you make it through the Great Tribulation
protected by God.

Do you reject the ultimate protection of God for
the Great Tribulation (called OSAS = once saved,
always saved) ?

 

[BobRyan]

According to Daniel 7 the saints are persecuted all during the time of the Pagan Roman Empire and EVEN during the time of the Papal Roman empire (no joke - we can all read history now that most of that is In history) and that this will be the case UNTIL the 2nd coming when the Kingdom is given to Christ at and the saints.

Dan 7
13 ""I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the [b]clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days[/b] And was presented before Him.
14 ""And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.



17 "These great beasts, which are four in number, are four kings[/b] who will arise from the earth.
18 "But the saints of the Highest One will receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever, [b]for all ages to come.'
19 ""Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet,
20 and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates.

Dan 7
21 ""I kept looking, and [b]that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints[/b] of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
23 ""Thus he said: "The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
24 "As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise[/b]; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.


Dan 7
25 "He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.


26 "But the court will sit for judgment, and his dominion will be taken away, annihilated and destroyed forever.
27 "Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.'

 

[Eliyahu]

Your statement is of the form:

(Some one else says: the reasons why
blah-blah is A, B, & C.)

Give mea reason why blah-blah.
You cannot use reasons A, B, & C.

Obviously I can't show one the reasons when they
reject them in the question.

I hope you make it through the Great Tribulation
protected by God.

What you cannot answer are the questions of blah, blah, er?

What you cannot answer are blah, blah, er?
Do you reject the ultimate protection of God for
the Great Tribulation (called OSAS = once saved,
always saved) ?

No, Sir. I believe OSAS

 

[BobRyan]

I agree with Eliyahu on the immortal soul thread -- and I think on Arminan-vs-Calvin

And it appears Eliyahu does not go for Pre-trib Rapture.

Do we agree here as well?

Premill?

Post Trib?

High bounce?

 

[Ed Edwards]

What you cannot answer are the questions of blah, blah, er?

You asked me a question.
You prohibited me from using any of the answers.
So, of course, I can't answer your question and
fulfill your request

But I can answer your questions without
fulfilling your request:

No, Sir. I believe OSAS

Then do you accept that if a Christian person (if they go
into the Tribulation)
can sin by rejecting God, die prematurely, and go to heaven?

Then where is the rapture of the church mentioned in RE?

Revelation 1-3 is about the Church Age (AKA - time of the Gentiles).
Revelation 4:1-2 is about the pretribulation rapture.
Revelation 4:3-19:10 is about the Triubulation Time
Revelation 19:11-21 is the Second coming of Jesus
Revelation 21 thru 22 and the events that happend afterword

If Jesus was caught up in 12:5, and 2 witnesses ascended up in Re 11:12,

Rev 12:5 And shee brought foorth a man child,
who was to rule all nations with a rod of yron:
and her child was caught vp vnto God, and to his Throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wildernesse,
where shee hath a place prepared of God,
that they should feed her there a thousand,
two hundred, and threescore dayes.

'She' is Yisrael who brough forth Messiah Jesus.
Messiah Jesus born on Dec 25, 0001BC and circumcised after
Abraham on Jan 01, 0001AD.
The woman who flees into the wilderness to
be protected 1,260 days (3½-years) is still
Yisrael, but the time is right in the middle of
Daniel's 70th Week. Recall it is in the mid-Tribulation
Period crisis when the Antichrist goes into the temple
to declare himself God, the two witnesses die
(resurrected 3½-days later). So the 3-½-years the Jews are
protected by God is the second half of the 70th week
of Daniel.

where is the scene of the rapture of the whole church described in Rev?

Revelation 4:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
After this I looked, and beholde, a doore was opened
in heauen: and the first voice which I heard, was as
it were of a trumpet, talking with me, which said,
Come vp hither, and I will shew thee things which
must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediatly I was in the spirit: and
beholde, a Throne was set in heauen,
and one sate on the Throne.

Compare "the first voice which I heard, was as
it were of a trumpet, talking with me, which said,
Come vp hither"

compare with
1Th 4:16-18 (KJV1611 Edition):
For the Lord himselfe shall descend from heauen
with a shout, with the voyce of the Archangel,
and with the trumpe of God:
and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are aliue, and remaine,
shalbe caught vp together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the aire:
and so shall wee euer bee with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore, comfort one an other with these words.

IMHO this passage in Revelation, while talking directly
about Bro. John, is speaking metaphorically about
the Saints of the ages at the pretribulation rapture.

Isn't that the moment which the whole church has been
anticipating and eager to see and experience
so much for 2000 years?

Yes, the day Jesus comes to get us in the
pretribulation rapture.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV1611 Edition):
But the day of the Lord wil come as a thiefe in the night,
in the which the heauens shall passe away
with a great noise, and the Elements shall
melt with feruent heate, the earth also and
the works that are therin shalbe burnt vp.

The 'Day of the Lord' here is the 1,000 year long Millinnial
Messanic Kingdom. But some (post tribulation rapture/resurrection
ONLY, a-mill) disregard all of Revelation 20 so they
can define the 'Day of the Lord' as the return of Jesus
in the second advent.

Second choice is that the comma I made huge is
a 1,000 year long comma.

For the 2 witnesses, even the enemies were watching over them. Can you show anything like that? Don't repeat Re 7 which shows the great multitude coming out of the Tribulation, not by Rapture.

Well, I can't help you
see what you chose to NOT see.

 

[Eliyahu]

I agree with Eliyahu on the immortal soul thread -- and I think on Arminan-vs-Calvin

And it appears Eliyahu does not go for Pre-trib Rapture.

Do we agree here as well?

Premill?

Post Trib?

High bounce?

My stance is Partial Mid-Tribulation Rapture.

 

[Eliyahu]

Dear Ed,

Ed draws a big picture from " come up" to Apostle John. ( Re 4:1-)

Is that the Rapture which the church has been anticipating so much for 2000 years? Come up was addressed simply to John. How can it be so simpler than the coming of great multitude out of the Tribulation? and more ambiguous than the rapture of 2 witnesses?

I expected some profound exegesis from the expert who studied Eschatology for 50 years

 

[Ed Edwards]

...

I expected some profound exegesis from the expert who studied Eschatology for 50 years

Tee Hee!

I also had a 4-year-teaching career,
a 4-year Military career,
a 30-year Electrical Engineering career (that
pays my family's way)


------------------------------- This is missing mid-trib/partial
rapture, how do that work? -----------------------------------


x-mill = x-millennial: the relationship of the Millennial (1,000 year)
Messianic Reign of Christ, and His Second Coming
('pre-' means the Second coming is before the Millenniuml)

x-trib = x-tribulation: the relationship of the tribulation
and the rapture/resurrection ('pre-' means the
rapture/resurrection comes before the Tribulation period)

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Post-trib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Post-trib a-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
(same as 2. Tribulation time)
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(same 12-hour day as: 1. rapture/resurrection
4. spiritual MK=millennial kingdom, in heaven
5. spiritual new heaven & new earth

Done-did preterist a-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection -- already happened
2. Tribulation time -- you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event -- already happened
4. spiritual MK=millennial kingdom -- already happened
5. new heaven & new earth -- you are here



Expanded pretrib pre-mill timeline:
(this is a work in progress, please comment
-- construstive comments & even destructive
commenet help. thank you.)

0. church age continues

1. rapture/resurrection

2. The 7-year Tribulation Period

2a. Starting events
2a1. The seven year AC/Israel treaty
2a2. The revelation of the AC

2b. the first half (3.5years) - the Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2b1. The Seal Judgments (Revelation 6)
2b2. Rise of the Antichrist
2b3. Ten nation confederacy (Daniel 2:42-44;
---- Daniel 7:7,24; Rev 12:3; Rev 17:12,16)
2b4. The ministry of Elijah (Rev 11:3, Malachi 4:5,6)
2b5. Ministry of the 144,000 Israeli (Rev 7)
2b6. The Trumpet judgements/wrath (Rev 8-9)
2b7. The false church (ecclesiastical Babylon)
----- (Revelation 17:1-6)

2c. the mid-tribulation events
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2c1. The Little Scroll (Rev 10)
2c2. AC killed (Rev 13:3)
2c3. Satan cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7,9)
2c4. Resurrection of AC (Rev 13:3,4)
2c5. 3 kings killed, 7 submit to AC
2c6. destruction by AC of false church (Rev 7:16)
2c7. Death/resurrection of two witnesses
2c8. Worship of the AC starts (Rev 13:3,4,8 )
2c9. Rise of the False Prophet (Rev 13:11-15)
2c10. MOB=mark of the beast (Rev 13:16-18 )
2c11. 7-year covenant broken (Isaiah 28:18; Daniel 11:41)
2c12. AOD=abomination of Desolation
----- (Daniel 9:27; Matthew 24:15,16; 2 Thess 2:4)
2c13. Persecution of the Jews begins
----- (Rev 12:1-6)

2d. the second half (3.5years) - the Great Tribulation period
(these items are not necessarily in time sequence)

2d0. Rule of the Antichrist
2d1. the Bowl Judgments/wrath (Rev 16)
2d2. protection of the Jewish Remnant
---- (Micah 2:12; Matthew 24:16; Revelation 12:6,14)
2d3. Armageddon (these items are in time sequence):

2d3a. - assembling the allies of AC
------- (Rev 16:12-16)
2d3b. - destruction of Babylon
------- (Isaiah 13; Jeremiah 50-51; Revelation 18 )
2d3c. - Fall of Jerusalem
------- (Micah 4:11-5:1; Zachariah 12:1-9; 14:1,2)
2d3d. - Armies of AC at Bozrah (Jeremiah 49:13,14)
2d3e. - Conversion of Israel complete
------- (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27)

(2e the end of the Trib, which is the Second Advent
---- of Jesus to defeat the AC and set up the MK)

3. Second Advent of Jesus event
3a. postrib gathering and resurrection of the trib saints
3b. antichrist and false prophet are cast alive into the Lake of Fire
- 19:20-22!
3c. The Judgment of the Nations= Matthew 25:31-46

4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom

5. Satan loosed for a little season to deceive the Nations - Revelation 20:7-8!

6. The final battle of God and Magog! - Revelation 20:8-9!

7. Satan cast into the lake of Fire. - Revelation 20:10!

8. The Great White Throne of Judgment! - Revelation 20:11-15!

9.new heaven & new earth - 2 Peter 3:10

10. The Eternal Kingdom! The New Heavens and New Earth
and the New Jerusalem! - Revelation 21:1-3!
------------------------------------

 

[Ed Edwards]

Here are some questions I was asked in 1998
and the answers then. (One change: I now like
the HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/
and like the 21st Century (2001-2100) English.)
-----------------------------------

1) From Adam until the descending of New Jerusalem,
how many ages are there?

I don't know. The Bible doesn't say.

2) Is the Holy Spirit required for salvation?

Yes. In this age & the next.

3) Does/Has God changed?

Nope.

4) Does/Has Jesus changed (besides the obvious)?

Nope.

5) Is the Holy Spirit "raptured" at the same
time as the believers?

No. "Raptured" means to get a glorified body without
dying. The Holy Spirit doesn't need a body.

6) Who are the 144,000 sealed Jews?

A group of Messanic Jews from the church age
raptured at the pretribulation rapture/resurrection
selected for special service on the earth
during the Tribulation period.

7) Are these 144K Jews evangelists?

The Bible does not say it.
Millionare novel writers say it

8) Is there more than one way or method that one can be saved?

No. Salvation is through Jesus ONLY.

9) Are there different classes of the saved?

No. But count me among the haired saved
(as opposed to the bald saved).

A) Can the Jews be saved outside of Jesus?

No.

B) Is works necessary for salvation?

Yes, the works of Jesus are necessary.
No, the saved individual is saved by the works of Jesus,
not by their own works.

C) Will there be a mass period of evangelism during
the tribulation?

No, for gentiles.
Yes, for Jewish Israeli.

D) Is martyrdom a prerequisite for salvation
during the tribulation?

Yes, for gentiles.
No, for Jewish Israeli.

E) If the Holy Spirit is not here during the tribulation
then how can anyone be saved?

Unanswerable question based on a faulty premesis.
The Holy Spirit will be on earth during
the Tribulation period. However, the
Church Age (Time of the Gentiles) saints will
no be available to witness guided by the Holy
Spirit. There will be Jewish/Israeli elect saints
(especially the 144,000) who will be witnessing.

F) Can God protect His children on the earth from His wrath?

Yes.

10) Are those mentioned throughout the NT as elect
the Jews or the Church?

Yes. (in other words /I.E./ Both)

11) What are the moral implications on pre-tribbers
if they are wrong and the Lord comes at the
end of the tribulation only once?

None. The whole idea of every eschatological teaching
should be to encourage holy living NOW.

12) Does my belief in a post-trib return of our Lord affect
or negate my "rapture" at the beginning of the tribulation?

No. Only your personal relation to the Savior: Messiah Jesus.

13) Do you believe that only spiritual Christians
will be "raptured" out at the beginning of the
tribulation, leaving non-spiritual ones here?

Nope. I'm an ALL or NONE pretribulation rapturist.

14) Do you believe that since the word "church"
is not found between Revelation 4 and 21 the church
is not on the earth?

Yes, the gentile church-age church is not found.
The Jewish Israeli chruch is found after the
mid=trib crises

15) Since the early church fathers (ECFs) did not
believe in a pre-trib "rapture" did that affect
their salvation?

If the premesis is true, it did not affect their
salvation.
If the premesis is false, it did not affect their
salvation.

16) Which is superior, the English translations,
or the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?

The translations written in the language
that I understand: 21st century English.
The nKJV is the best, but NIV, NASB, NLT
contain the written word of God: the Holy Bible.

17) Do you believe the tribulation will be pre-mil,
post-mil, or a-mil?

pre-mil

18) Are the church-age saints (those today)
considered the Bride of Christ?

Yes.

19) Are the OT saints considered part of the Bride of Christ?

Yes.

1A) Are the trib-saints considered part of the Bride of Christ?

Yes.

1B) Are the Jews who are saved after the tribulation
saved outside of the blood of Christ?

No.

1C) Why are people saying today "Where is the
promise of His return?" (Fulfilling
the scripture: 2 Peter 3:4 And saying,
Where is the promise of his coming?
for since the fathers fell asleep,
all things continue as they were from
the beginning of the creation.)

They don't see God's mercy toward them.

1D) Can you, as a pre-tribulationist, afford to be wrong?

Yes. Trusting Jesus is a higher calling than
one's x-trib position. The same actions i call for
to be Rapture Ready in the church age are the actions needed for
a post-tribulation rapture.

1E) What are the implications on you, your family,
your friends, your church, should pre-trib be proven wrong?

They will probably be disapointed in me that i
didn't see that God had blessed them with the
gift of martyrdom.

1F) Can you quote a verse for us that says,
in the words of Christ, Peter, John, Paul,
whoever, "After that tribulation I will gather my church."?

No. But i have a concordance.
Want me to look it up?

20) You said you've been studying the Word for 50 years.
Did you arrive at pre-trib on your own,
or did you first discover it in the writings
of Lindsay/Pentecost/Kirban/Scofield/Ryrie/LaHaye/Walvoord/Larkin,

et.al.?

None of the above.
The minister at the church where i was saved
taught a pretribulation rapture/resurrection.
I was 8-years-old. I believed what he said.
After that I read the Bible & studied it. Never did find
anything in the Bible contradicting the Pretribulation
Rapture.

Nice questions, Brother /1998 name suppressed/.
And your answers are?
Note that i will probably not respond to your answers
unless i feel i will have something of encouragement
to add an ongoing discussion.

---------------------------------------

 

[BobRyan]

My stance is Partial Mid-Tribulation Rapture.

Ok - so premill at least (literal - real 1000 years)

No pre-trib -- at least.

Well that is something anyway.

I'll take it.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 24 shows a post trib - rapture at the 2nd coming.

Rev 19-20 show us that the FIRST resurrection future to John happens at the 2nd coming (Rev 19) just as Matt 24 states.

John 14:1-3 shows us that there was only ONE event that christ focused the disciples one "IF I go -- I WILL come again and RECEIVE you".

1Peter 1:12-13 shows us that this ONE single event is THE focus of the entire NT church.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Your statement is of the form:

(Some one else says: the reasons why
blah-blah is A, B, & C.)

Give mea reason why blah-blah.
You cannot use reasons A, B, & C.

Obviously I can't show one the reasons when they
reject them in the question.

I hope you make it through the Great Tribulation
protected by God.

Do you reject the ultimate protection of God for
the Great Tribulation (called OSAS = once saved,
always saved) ?

GE

I am a great time believer in the Old Time Religion of the Providence of God and the Perseverance of the saints. My verse I always pray day and night is Ps23, especially in the country in which I live, and with the children God had given me. How could the mercy of God be bigger than His while the Redeemer of such as we are? I am satisfied by His mercies; my cup runneth over. The Lord is my Shepherd. I shall not want, come Tribulation, come abundance and ease. Come life, come death - it is no different ever; only the day when He comes again, we sahll be changed. Worship God, and rest in Him Therefore keep your Sabbaths, ye Freemen of the Lord.

 

[Ed Edwards]

BobRyan: //Matt 24 shows a post trib - rapture at the 2nd coming.//

Matthew 24 shows Jesus will do the gathering of the saints
at the end of the Age (time of the Gentiles) - Matthew 23-31
read as an answer to a question in Matthew 24:3.

BobRyan: //Rev 19-20 show us that the FIRST resurrection
future to John happens at the 2nd coming (Rev 19) just as Matt 24 states.//

I've shown that that 'first resurrection' happens in one
of God's days: Daniel's 70th week -- the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection at the beginning - the wuppin' of the
Antichrist/Devil at the end.

BobRyan: //John 14:1-3 shows us that there was only ONE
event that christ focused the disciples one "IF I go -- I WILL
come again and RECEIVE you".//

I think it much better to focus on the pretribulation gathering
(rapture/resurrection) at the beginning (of the first resurrection)
than on the wuppin' of the Antichrist/Devil at the end
(of the first resurrection).

BobRyan: //1 Peter 1:12-13 shows us that this ONE single
event is THE focus of the entire NT church.//

I think it much better to focus on the pretribulation departure-of-earth
(rapture/resurrection) at the beginning (of the first resurrection)
than on the wuppin' of the Antichrist/Devil at the end
(of the first resurrection).

I think it much better to focus on the revelation of Jesus
to His own than the revelation of Jesus to the
rest of the world.

 

[Ed Edwards]

1 Peter 1:13 (Geneva Bible):
Wherefore, girde vp the Ioynes of your minde:
bee sober, and trust perfectly on
that grace that is brought vnto you,
in the reuelation of Iesus Christ,

When is God's grace brought into us?

At the revelation of Jesus Christ at the
beginning of the Tribulation Period,
(the gathering of the saints),
or the revelation at the end of the Tribulation Period,
the wuppin' of the Devil & the false Christ?

 

[Ed Edwards]

GE

I am a great time believer in the Old Time Religion of the Providence of God and the Perseverance of the saints. My verse I always pray day and night is Ps23, especially in the country in which I live, and with the children God had given me. How could the mercy of God be bigger than His while the Redeemer of such as we are? I am satisfied by His mercies; my cup runneth over. The Lord is my Shepherd. I shall not want, come Tribulation, come abundance and ease. Come life, come death - it is no different ever; only the day when He comes again, we sahll be changed. Worship God, and rest in Him Therefore keep your Sabbaths, ye Freemen of the Lord.

Amen Brother Gerhard Ebersoehn -- preach it!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Its when trying to read or participate on threads like this that I see how the administrators kept the forums apart. This 'other denominations' forum lures all dissident viewpoints. It seems noone ever on any 'point' agree with 'nominal'? Churches likes the Presbiterians and Baptists - 'normal' Churches. To me looking like the sane Churches against this lot on 'other denominations'! It is extremely difficult to have a conversation with you, if you mind to listen to what I am saying this minute! How is it possible to cope with the infinity of 'wild off the mark' (as BR says) convictions or 'beliefs'? No, if the Board won't allow me to participate on the 'baptist'- section, this will be my last word on this or any other forum. I'm sure nobody's gonna miss me. Cheers!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Wow, you are two years older than me, so I call you
'Sir Brother Gerhard Ebersoehn'.

Sorry about the language, I get in a hurry and talk
in Hebrew, American English, Seminole (tribe east of me),
Chickasaw (tribe south of me), Ancient Greek,
Modern Greek, Ebonics (so
called Black English), Southern USofA English,
Okie English, 16th century(1501-1600) English,
Jive, and so forth.