Featured Predeterminism vs fatalism

One thing that seems to constantly come up in debates about predestination/predeterminism is what I see to be a faulty understanding of the nuances surrounding the term. Often times, opponents conflate predeterminism and fatalism.

These two terms almost seem synonymous but that isn't the case. What appears to throw most people off is the fact that in both theories, the end is a predetermined one. However, one must go beyond this shallow observation to very technical definitions of predeterminism and fatalism.

Fatalism essentially says, what will happen will happen—no preceding cause necessary. In this case, an event is uncaused—independent of preceding events. Predeterminism says all events are caused—not just by preceding events but ALSO by God's plan. This is what is meant by the concept of compatibilism.

Two such instances are the Joseph narrative and the Crucifixion narrative. In the Joseph narrative, if fatalism was at play here, the events leading to Joseph's ascension to power in Egypt and the salvation of his family would not have had any direction. However, we see that each smaller event LED HIM to a subsequent event that got him closer to the purposed culminating event of his rising to power in Egypt and saving his family from famine. This is expressed in Genesis 50:20 where Joseph reveals that his brothers' intentional choices along with God's purpose LED HIM to the good of him being where he was at the end of this story.

In the crucifixion narrative, if fatalism had been at play, Jesus's passion experience would have almost seemed random and arbitrary. However, the gospels were careful to show us how each event MOVED HIM closer and closer to his betrayal, torture, and crucifixion. His teaching and miracles LED TO jealousy and resentment. This jealousy and resentment led to the Pharisees and scribes looking for an occasion to kill Jesus. Jesus' own deference in displaying his "military" power prompts Judas to "speed him along" by betrayal—betrayal that leads to his arrest, kangaroo trial, and ultimately his crucifixion. This is summarized in Acts 2:23, and 3:18 where Peter makes it clear that Jesus' betrayal was a result of human decision and God's plan.

Instead of seeing predeterminism as random and arbitrary, Christians should see it as the orchestrative nature of God's wisdom.

 

The "existing saints" term is tricky. I would probably prefer "unrealized elect".

 

On the contrary, 1 Thessalonians 5:9 and 2 Thessalonians 2:13 say otherwise.
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, - 1 Thess. 5:9
God chose you from the beginning to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 2 Thess. 2:13

 

Now that's a better question. Some have posited the beginning means the beginning of the Apostles' ministry, or the beginning of Paul's ministry to the church at Thessalonica. The problem is that scripture points to God choosing. And if it is God choosing, scripture makes it plain that God does his choosing before the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4 - he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him.

 

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(4) According as (i.e., inasmuch as) he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world.--Again it should be, He chose us for Himself. The eternal election of God is inseparably connected with the blessing of the Spirit. This passage stands alone in St. Paul's Epistles in its use of this word "chosen" in connection with God's eternal purpose, "before the foundation of the world"--a phrase only applied elsewhere to the eternal communion of the Son with the Father (John 17:24), and to the foreordaining of His sacrifice in the divine counsels (1Peter 1:20).

This is begging the question.

Comfort to whom?

"Even as"?

 

That again is begging the question. And to whom are those verses unclear? To me, and tons of other Christians, this verse is very clear.

 

But there are verses that say "chosen to be saved".

 

Exactly...isn't that what I said?

 

Our being in him is an act done before time.