Prisoner in van said Freddie Gray was ‘trying to injure himself,’

[Revmitchell]

BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

The prisoner, who is currently in jail, was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him. His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant, which is sealed by the court. The Post was given the document under the condition that the prisoner not be named because the person who provided it feared for the inmate’s safety.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=sm_tw

 

[HankD]

BALTIMORE — A prisoner sharing a police transport van with Freddie Gray told investigators that he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

The prisoner, who is currently in jail, was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him. His statement is contained in an application for a search warrant, which is sealed by the court. The Post was given the document under the condition that the prisoner not be named because the person who provided it feared for the inmate’s safety.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html?tid=sm_tw

This is now become a habit.

Man ends up dead by police seemingly having done nothing worthy of death.

Police take it in the neck.

Administration people verbally beat up and malign the police publicly in the news media.

Fire, destruction, looting and mayhem follow.

New, possibly mitigating evidence comes forth after the fact, after the damage is done.

Somewhere in the mix an inflammatory (but unnamed) rabble-rouser shows up.

Large broom sweeps all under the rug.


HankD

 

[777]

This is even more weirdness - I have to wonder if it's really such a good thing for WaPo to know and leak out this information in an ongoing investigation. HankD is right that the police are always to blame by the MSM, and the MSM tends to jump to faulty conclusions in these cases.

It's believable to me that Freddie was doing what this other guy in the van claims - Gray was a seasoned criminal that had been arrested multiple times. I'm sure he knew about all the criticism and the history of BPD's "nickel" rides, trying to cash in again? . Or he could have been high on something and/or in a rage and freaked out. All I know is the narrative that Freddie was walking down the street and saw four bicycle cops and took off running. Then, one cop chased him on foot and tackled him. They have a tape of the arrest and it looks like Freddie was having some trouble already, but then they just threw him in the van with his hands cuffed behind him. What happened after that, who knows, but he ended up in a coma in the hospital and died a few days later of these injuries.

He had asthma (as do I) and asked for an inhaler around when he was cuffed. but they denied it - you have to have a prescription for that but I wonder if a sudden asthma attack didn't just freak him out at that point. I guess an autopsy will be telling.

 

[Zaac]

This is one stupid story that shows just how much some folks want to always discredit the dead folks while serving as shills for the violent police.

This "story" is being posted as though the other arrested man's "supposition" is supposed to be some sort of concrete evidence to absolve the police of any responsibility.

Just dumb.

Did someone run his criminal background too to see what his criminal history is?

 

[Zaac]

This is even more weirdness - I have to wonder if it's really such a good thing for WaPo to know and leak out this information in an ongoing investigation. HankD is right that the police are always to blame by the MSM, and the MSM tends to jump to faulty conclusions in these cases.

It's believable to me that Freddie was doing what this other guy in the van claims - Gray was a seasoned criminal that had been arrested multiple times. I'm sure he knew about all the criticism and the history of BPD's "nickel" rides, trying to cash in again? . Or he could have been high on something and/or in a rage and freaked out. All I know is the narrative that Freddie was walking down the street and saw four bicycle cops and took off running. Then, one cop chased him on foot and tackled him. They have a tape of the arrest and it looks like Freddie was having some trouble already, but then they just threw him in the van with his hands cuffed behind him. What happened after that, who knows, but he ended up in a coma in the hospital and died a few days later of these injuries.

He had asthma (as do I) and asked for an inhaler around when he was cuffed. but they denied it - you have to have a prescription for that but I wonder if a sudden asthma attack didn't just freak him out at that point. I guess an autopsy will be telling.

Did you know that they put him in the van TWICE?
JANLOS.

 

[righteousdude2]

Did you know that they put him in the van TWICE?
JANLOS.

No! I heard he was put in the van once, and thrown into the van three more times!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I read that him and his sister won a lead paint poisoning settlement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e898e6-eea8-11e4-8abc-d6aa3bad79dd_story.html

That explains a lot. I had a young man who suffered from lead paint poisoning in my care a few years ago, and he was one of my most troublesome behavior problems. I literally had to help him spell his name every day. Then you add in the neglect and possible abuse he suffered in a home with a lot of siblings, no dad, and many men coming and going. Freddie Gray was probably a lot like that kid. Yes, the kid was black, from Philadelphia. He was personable, and quite a good singer, but spent most of his time in a blind rage. Heartbreaking.


If it comes out the police broke his neck on purpose I want them in jail. But I now know there was someone in the van who suffered no ill effects.

 

[annsni]

What gets me is that there are opinions formed before the facts are all in. Let the investigation happen and THEN let's decide on our course of action afterwards. It very well could be that the police officers disobeyed the law and they would have been properly disciplined but that doesn't matter. The decision to burn and loot is made regardless. That's sad to me.

 

[Revmitchell]

What gets me is that there are opinions formed before the facts are all in. Let the investigation happen and THEN let's decide on our course of action afterwards. It very well could be that the police officers disobeyed the law and they would have been properly disciplined but that doesn't matter. The decision to burn and loot is made regardless. That's sad to me.

It is sad. To make it worse all the looting and rioting is organized professionally.

 

[HankD]

Now another witness can testify as to the nature of the drive and whether it was "rough" or not, the other prisoner.

Also because of this other prisoner's testimony that Freddie was trying to hurt himself he has introduced another credible cause of Freddies death, that he perhaps, gave this injury to himself.

What that does is take away the case of murder or manslaughter even though it was not an "eye" witness but an "ear" witness account, it takes away proving murder or manslaughter because it takes away "beyond a reasonable doubt" of those crimes.

Maybe (and it seems within the realm of possibility) he did this to himself.
Now there is a reasonable doubt.

HankD

 

[Zaac]

Now another witness can testify as to the nature of the drive and whether it was "rough" or not, the other prisoner.

Also because of this other prisoner's testimony that Freddie was trying to hurt himself he has introduced another credible cause of Freddies death, that he perhaps, gave this injury to himself.

Circumstantial and won't go anywhere except in the minds of FOX News viewership. The "other prisoner" wasn't in there with him. He said

he could hear Gray “banging against the walls” of the vehicle and believed that he “was intentionally trying to injure himself,” according to a police document obtained by The Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

He didn't see anything.

And if we're to take the word of the other prisoner, why is it believed to be credible? What sort of deal is he getting for speaking up because I don't know of too many prisoners who are gonna start offering up ANY information about anything unless you cut them some type of deal.

So the reason behind his speculation and why it's public knowledge now will be interesting once it's revealed.

And if the other prisoner is to be believed about the condition of the ride, then that brings, even more so, into question how 80% of the man's spine was severed and why his larynx was crushed?

The prisoner, who is currently in jail, was separated from Gray by a metal partition and could not see him.

What that does is take away the case of murder or manslaughter even though it was not an "eye" witness but an "ear" witness account, it takes away proving murder or manslaughter because it takes away "beyond a reasonable doubt" of those crimes.

I don't know that murder was ever on the table. I don't think manslaughter goes away though.

I think again that police have to start being careful about slamming folks to the ground and such. Like Freddy Gray, you have no idea what that person has been through.

So to do what they did in apprehending him when he hadn't broken any laws, puts the onus back on the police department and their methods.

Maybe (and it seems within the realm of possibility) he did this to himself.
Now there is a reasonable doubt.

There's no REASONABLE doubt. Reasonable people aren't gonna believe based upon what another criminal supposed or what officers are trying to sell that a man intentionally severed 80% of his own spine and crushed his own larnyx.

 

[righteousdude2]

What gets me is that there are opinions formed before the facts are all in. Let the investigation happen and THEN let's decide on our course of action afterwards. It very well could be that the police officers disobeyed the law and they would have been properly disciplined but that doesn't matter. The decision to burn and loot is made regardless. That's sad to me.

You are right. Jumping to conclusions cost a good cop in Ferguson his career. And now another city is trashed, and like wars, we, the taxpayers will foot the bill to rebuild the destruction caused by a group of people on a pity rampage.:tear:

 

[Zaac]

Now the "other" prisoner is saying he didn't say what the police say that he said.:sleep:

 

[Use of Time]

You are right. Jumping to conclusions cost a good cop in Ferguson his career. And now another city is trashed, and like wars, we, the taxpayers will foot the bill to rebuild the destruction caused by a group of people on a pity rampage.:tear:

Kind of like taking the word of this fellow prisoner and then feeling awkward when he recants the story. I see that we are willing to jump when it fits our narrative.

 

[righteousdude2]

Kind of like taking the word of this fellow prisoner and then feeling awkward when he recants the story. I see that we are willing to jump when it fits our narrative.

Whatever. I still have to ask you is this a good use of time, on your behalf, Use of Time? :laugh:

 

[Jedi Knight]

Self inflicted is the case and thugs didn't care about their fellow thug. They were looking for a reason to act out their lawlessness at ANYONES expense! Hands up....don't loot is the real story.

 

[righteousdude2]

Self inflicted is the case and thugs didn't care about their fellow thug. They were looking for a reason to act out their lawlessness at ANYONES expense! Hands up....don't loot is the real story.

Jedi brother, can I change your saying, "Hands up....don't loot" to "Hands up ... LET'S LOOT!'

From the president on down to the black teenager in America, there has become this unjustified need to jump to conclusions early on, and everytime they do this, the investigation vindicates the cops, and adds to their impatient minds, the embarrassment of being fools led to folly by non racist issues!

If these young people lived back in the days before civil rights became a reality, they would not be complaining through riots today! Too bad we have no way to transport them all back in time to the 50s and 60s and even the days of slavery in America as well as throughout this world! Then their minds would be more open to the idea that things have come a long way, and that to continue to act like savages on the warpath, only destroys any brick and mortar and social and cultural changes for the good of all blacks.

Rioting will only put them back where they started from in the 60s, and also build anger toward them in the cultures of other races throughout America.

This is a good OP, thanks for posting! :applause:
And while it may be true that Gray tried to harm himself or not, we need to wait and see just what all the investigative work's results in. If anyone cop, or the group of them intentionally hurt Gray, then let the law take care of them.

 

[Use of Time]

Jedi brother, can I change your saying, "Hands up....don't loot" to "Hands up ... LET'S LOOT!'

From the president on down to the black teenager in America, there has become this unjustified need to jump to conclusions early on, and everytime they do this, the investigation vindicates the cops, and adds to their impatient minds, the embarrassment of being fools led to folly by non racist issues!

If these young people lived back in the days before civil rights became a reality, they would not be complaining through riots today! Too bad we have no way to transport them all back in time to the 50s and 60s and even the days of slavery in America as well as throughout this world! Then their minds would be more open to the idea that things have come a long way, and that to continue to act like savages on the warpath, only destroys any brick and mortar and social and cultural changes for the good of all blacks.

Rioting will only put them back where they started from in the 60s, and also build anger toward them in the cultures of other races throughout America.

This is a good OP, thanks for posting! :applause:
And while it may be true that Gray tried to harm himself or not, we need to wait and see just what all the investigative work's results in. If anyone cop, or the group of them intentionally hurt Gray, then let the law take care of them.

Yeah, except the police commissioner himself has cited a lapse in procedures citing failure to secure the prisoner which he called inexcusable and failure to provide timely medical care. Who's jumping to conclusions now? Also several witnesses who saw the initial arrest were citing police indifference to his expressions of severe pain.

 

[Zaac]

Self inflicted is the case and thugs didn't care about their fellow thug. They were looking for a reason to act out their lawlessness at ANYONES expense! Hands up....don't loot is the real story.

So we're to believe that the same man who asked for an inhaler...(we do all understand why someone requests an inhaler, right?)...before they put him in the transport suddenly decided he didn't want to live anymore so he severs his own spine and crushes his own larynx?

Right. Sue the pants off them and they need to go somewhere with the insulting $219,000 cap. Is that all a life is worth to the city of Baltimore?

 

[InTheLight]

Self inflicted is the case and thugs didn't care about their fellow thug.

Faux News is reporting this, so it must be true:

Freddie Gray's fatal injuries reportedly caused by impact with bolt in police van

The fatal broken neck Freddie Gray suffered, apparently while riding in the back of a Baltimore police van last month, may have been caused when his head hit a bolt inside the vehicle, according to local reports citing sources familiar with a police report now in the hands of state prosecutors.

Sources familiar with the report said the medical examiner found the injury that caused Gray's death a week later, on April 19, was likely caused when he slammed his head into the interior wall of the police transport van and that his head injury reportedly matched a bolt in the back of the van. That explanation could jibe with a fellow passenger's account in a police affidavit that Gray was thrashing around in an effort to injure himself, although that witness went on the city's CBS affiliate to say his words were taken out of context and that he now fears for his life after his statement was used to bolster the police version of events.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/01/many-questions-still-remain-in-death-freddie-gray/


And this was posted yesterday:

Freddie Gray killed after head 'slammed into bolt in back of police van', say reports

An injury on Gray’s head is said to have matched a bolt in the back of the police van, according to ABC local news, who also reported that the only police officer involved in Gray’s arrest and detention yet to have provided an account to the police was the van’s driver.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fr...f-police-van-say-reports/ar-BBiXIAC?ocid=iehp