Proclaiming the gospel, then and now

[evangelist-7]

In the NT period, how was evangelizing done?
The gospel was preached by word of mouth.
And it seems this was usually (always?) accompanied by signs and wonders.

“And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them,
and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.” (Mark 16:20)

“… (the gospel message) was confirmed to us by those who heard Him (Jesus),
God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will” (Hebrews 2:3-4)

The new believers joined churches where they received more word-of-mouth training.

Today, how is evangelizing done?
The gospel is preached by word of mouth.
Pentecostals/Charismatics, here and abroad, do their best to preach the gospel with signs and wonders.

In these meetings, people don’t become believers by reading gospel tracts or NTs.
They respond to the spoken word and the confirming signs, as in NT times.
The new believers join churches where they receive more word-of-mouth training,
and also written materials, which help them grow.

Today, when evangelists preach the gospel …
how does them having the completed canon of Scripture change anything?
The preaching and the saving is all done verbally.

Why should evangelists no longer desire the benefit of confirming signs and wonders?

Why would the Lord want to change His tried-and-true method of evangelizing?

Those of you who are cessaniansts, please explain this to me. Thank you in advance.

 

[The Biblicist]

In the NT period, how was evangelizing done?
The gospel was preached by word of mouth.
And it seems this was usually (always?) accompanied by signs and wonders.

“And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them,
and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.” (Mark 16:20)

“… (the gospel message) was confirmed to us by those who heard Him (Jesus),
God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will” (Hebrews 2:3-4)

The new believers joined churches where they received more word-of-mouth training.

Today, how is evangelizing done?
The gospel is preached by word of mouth.
Pentecostals/Charismatics, here and abroad, do their best to preach the gospel with signs and wonders.

In these meetings, people don’t become believers by reading gospel tracts or NTs.
They respond to the spoken word and the confirming signs, as in NT times.
The new believers join churches where they receive more word-of-mouth training,
and also written materials, which help them grow.

Today, when evangelists preach the gospel …
how does them having the completed canon of Scripture change anything?
The preaching and the saving is all done verbally.

Why should evangelists no longer desire the benefit of confirming signs and wonders?

Why would the Lord want to change His tried-and-true method of evangelizing?

Those of you who are cessaniansts, please explain this to me. Thank you in advance.

You might start first with a proper definition of what the gospel is! You don't even know what it is. In fact, the gospel you preach is no different than Rome's gospel!

The gospel is about the COMPLETE SATISFACTION of the righteous demands of God against sinner not about spiritual gifts! One can have all the spiritual gifts and be CARNAL - read 1 Cor. 3:1-3. They came behind in no spiritual gift but they came behind in spirituality.

1 Cor. 3:1 ¶ And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?


Gifts have nothing to do with spirituality and therefore nothing to do with the gospel or salvation - Read 1 Cor. 12:29-30 -

 

[Jerome]

John 20:29-30
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[The Biblicist]

John 20:29-30
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Excellent response!!

 

[Yeshua1]

In the NT period, how was evangelizing done?
The gospel was preached by word of mouth.
And it seems this was usually (always?) accompanied by signs and wonders.

“And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them,
and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.” (Mark 16:20)

“… (the gospel message) was confirmed to us by those who heard Him (Jesus),
God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles,
and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will” (Hebrews 2:3-4)

The new believers joined churches where they received more word-of-mouth training.

Today, how is evangelizing done?
The gospel is preached by word of mouth.
Pentecostals/Charismatics, here and abroad, do their best to preach the gospel with signs and wonders.

In these meetings, people don’t become believers by reading gospel tracts or NTs.
They respond to the spoken word and the confirming signs, as in NT times.
The new believers join churches where they receive more word-of-mouth training,
and also written materials, which help them grow.

Today, when evangelists preach the gospel …
how does them having the completed canon of Scripture change anything?
The preaching and the saving is all done verbally.

Why should evangelists no longer desire the benefit of confirming signs and wonders?

Why would the Lord want to change His tried-and-true method of evangelizing?

Those of you who are cessaniansts, please explain this to me. Thank you in advance.

I once believed as you now do, but the lord openned my eyes to see per the Bible that the Gospel is NOT what you claim it to be, but it is the very power of God unto those whom he has chosen to save !

it is the birth/death/resurrection of jesus, and the Holy Spirit makes the sinner able to hear and receive him period, its work of Him, NOT signs/wonders tongues etc!

 

[billwald]

In NT times Christians had the legal freedom to evangelize because the Roman government considered Christianity to be a Jewish sect. Christianity was outlawed sometime between 17 AD and the Bar Kochba Rebellion?

 

[Yeshua1]

Excellent response!!

jesus commissioned us to preach that in His name would be forgiveness of sins, NOT that we need to add signs/wonders too!

 

[evangelist-7]

I no longer reply individually to the spiritual degenerates ... 'tis a waste of time.
However, corporate posts may be of some value to some of you.

The NT and the NT church were supposed to be models for all future believers to follow.
That should be obvious to us, but alas it has not been.

The NT church got its' spiritual power (and directions from God) through the 9 spiritual gifts (see 1 Cor 12).

Everyone in the NT 5-fold ministry (see Eph 4:11) had some of these gifts, and so the church
leaders were anointed, and the churches were very successful and grew at an alarming rate.
Church members were healed of whatever was troubling them (physical, emotional, mental, spiritual).

Evangelism was done by preaching the gospel ...
the truth of which was confirmed by God's signs, wonders, and miracles.

All of this was the pattern for all future churches: anointed, successful, overcoming, expanding.

The 2 main reasons why The Church failed to continue with God's pattern after the apostles died:

1) Satan did everything in his power to stop The Church's spiritual power, success, and growth.

2) Church leaders who did not have any of the spiritual gifts down-played them,
even to the point of saying they had ceased, in order to maintain their positions of power and authority.
When Church power became centralized (in Rome and Constantinople) the situation became even worse.
The Church became controlled by the doctrines of men (Scripture mixed with man-made doctrine).

Cessationism is the belief that God’s signs, wonders, and miracles (esp. through the hands of believers)
ceased with the passing of the apostles.

However, there is a ton of historical evidence that they did NOT cease,
but were indeed prevalent throughout history (they were just not allowed in the big church establishments).
For the historical proof please see http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=82257
.

 

[The Biblicist]

I
The NT and the NT church were supposed to be models for all future believers to follow.
That should be obvious to us, but alas it has not been.

Too general! There are things that are limited to first century Christians alone.

1. Apostles - as their qualfications limit them to first century - Acts 1:21-22
2. "The signs of an apostle" - 2 Cor. 12:12
3. Only one Pentecost - The Spirit is not being resent
4. There are NEGATIVES that we are models for not following

The NT church got its' spiritual power (and directions from God) through the 9 spiritual gifts (see 1 Cor 12).

You can assert that! You can assume that! But what scripture(s) teach that? Answer - no, not one!

Everyone in the NT 5-fold ministry (see Eph 4:11) had some of these gifts,

1. The church at Rome had no sign gifts listed at all (Rom. 12) - that is why Paul wished to come as an apostle to convey sign gifts to them - Rom. 1:11

2. You fail to distinguish between servant gifts (Eph. 4:11-12) and service gives (Rom. 12) with sign gifts (1 Cor. 12-14).

3. The Scriptures explicitly deny that all Christians had either servant or sign gifts - 1 Cor.12:29-30

Evangelism was done by preaching the gospel ...
the truth of which was confirmed by God's signs, wonders, and miracles.

1. The same gospel was preached before Pentecost (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:43) and not confirmed by signs, miracles and wonders.

2. The apostles and their preaching was confirmed by miracles signs and wonders as they were also "prophets" providing new scriptures and thus "signs" in Israel (Heb. 2:3-4; 12 with Isaiah 8:16-18).

3. If all Christians had "miracles, signs and wonders" then how could the "signs of an apostle" distinguish between them and apostles - 2 Cor. 12:12?

The 2 main reasons why The Church failed to continue with God's pattern after the apostles died:

1. The "signs of an apostle" ceased with the death of the apostles - 2 Cor. 12:12

2. Post-apostolic signs and wonders were the predicted signs of apostate Christianity - 2 Thes. 2:9; Mt. 24:24-25

3. Present miracle, sign and wonder movements replicate the kind of miracles among New Age religions and their division, confusion, false doctrine advertise the power behind their miracles, signs and wonders - Isa. 8:19-20; 1 Jn. 4:1; 1 Tim. 4:1-2.

I no longer reply individually to the spiritual degenerates ... 'tis a waste of time.

First, you have never been to provide a Biblical based response that harmonizes with scripture but rather pits scripture against scripture and Isaiah 8:20 tells us how to define your kind of responses.

Second, your spirit does not harmonize with the "fruit" of the Spirit - Gal. 5:22

 

[SolaSaint]

In NT times Christians had the legal freedom to evangelize because the Roman government considered Christianity to be a Jewish sect. Christianity was outlawed sometime between 17 AD and the Bar Kochba Rebellion?

Bill, how could this be when Christ didn't die until around 30-33 AD?

 

[evangelist-7]

4. ... we are models for not following

Just happened to stumble across this in glorious post #9.

Yes, this is undoubtedly the most truthful advice I've read from you!

I will make a point of heeding it. Thanks for the heads up.
(But I didn't need it ... I knew this already.)
.

 

[The Biblicist]

Just happened to stumble across this in glorious post #9.

Yes, this is undoubtedly the most truthful advice I've read from you!

I will make a point of heeding it. Thanks for the heads up.
(But I didn't need it ... I knew this already.)
.

Have no idea what you are saying!

 

[evangelist-7]

What I'ze sayin' clearly is dis ...

John 20:
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book;
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

This is what was supposed to happen for 2000 years ... all throughout "the age of the Gentiles".

But it was NOT allowed to happen by the large, organized, prideful, greedy, deceitful, etc. church organizations.
.

 

[The Biblicist]

What I'ze sayin' clearly is dis ...

John 20:
30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book;
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

This is what was supposed to happen for 2000 years ... all throughout "the age of the Gentiles".

But it was NOT allowed to happen by the large, organized, prideful, greedy, deceitful, etc. church organizations.
.

That text says no such thing! If such signs were to continue for 2000 years then John would not have to record them for us to believe now, but would simply say these signs remain till Jesus comes and so just believe BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU WILL CONTINUE TO SEE!

 

[evangelist-7]

“And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence
of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
but these (signs) are written that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that believing you may have life in His name.”
(John 20:30-31)

Signs, wonders, and miracles help people to believe in Jesus and His "foolish" gospel message!

.

 

[12strings]

“And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence
of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
but these (signs) are written that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that believing you may have life in His name.”
(John 20:30-31)

Signs, wonders, and miracles help people to believe in Jesus and His "foolish" gospel message!

.

It seems like you are trying to make a point, but I'm just not getting it...perhaps if you made the font a little bigger...:thumbsup:

 

[The Biblicist]

“And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence
of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
but these (signs) are written that you may believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that believing you may have life in His name.”
(John 20:30-31)

Signs, wonders, and miracles help people to believe in Jesus and His "foolish" gospel message!

.

Yes, I suppose that is why Jesus said only a foolish and rebellious generation seeketh after signs but the only sign he would give those unbeleivers is the sign of Jonah or the sign of His death, burial and resurrection.

 

[evangelist-7]

Still never any response to the challenge ...

Why would Satan perform S-W-M that confirm the gospel preached,
resulting in millions of people believing in Jesus and the "foolish" gospel message?

But, I'ze a patient man ... surely you can come up with some rationalization.
Normally, you guys are good at that.
.

 

[The Biblicist]

Still never any response to the challenge ...

Why would Satan perform S-W-M that confirm the gospel preached,
resulting in millions of people believing in Jesus and the "foolish" gospel message?

But, I'ze a patient man ... surely you can come up with some rationalization.
Normally, you guys are good at that.
.

First, what is preached is a false gospel of justification by works. It is rare to find any pentecostal preacher that preaches justification by grace without works and those who espouse the language deny the doctrine by asserting genuine born again children of God can be lost.

Second, "another gospel" is the sign of "another spirit" and that spirit produces genuine SMW but are "lying" as they confirm not truth but error.

Third, Roman Catholicism is a good example of 1.2 billion people greater in number than any Pentecostal evangelistic number and yet few saved but plenty of SWM professed by them.

 

[billwald]

>Why would Satan perform S-W-M that confirm the gospel preached,
resulting in millions of people believing in Jesus and the "foolish" gospel message?

Maybe Satan invented the saying, "Three steps forward, two steps back."