Public and Christian Schools (Cont)

[JonC]

This was a good topic. To continue:

Hello!

For my first post here, I'll ask a question that has been bugging me since putting my oldest boy in school. If this is the wrong forum for this question, I apologize!

Last year, I put my four year old son in pre-school at a local Christian school. Up until that point, I thought it was a no-brainer that a Christian school would be better than a public school. However, now, I'm not so sure.

The Christian schools around here are Reformed, but none of them are Baptist. So the children are educated from the perspective that they're already 'covenant members.' I listen to the songs they're being taught, and the flawed theology that the teachers lay on them, and I find it very troubling. It is assumed that these kids are already saved. All of them.

But it IS God-centered teaching. They are taught about God as creator instead of the big-bang and evolution. They read the Bible and pray. They are taught Christian morals. All of which would be absent in public school.

Also, it should be noted that the public schools around here a very conservative, for whatever that's worth.

So my ultimate question is: even with flawed theology and soteriology, a Bible-centered education is better than a secular one, correct?

In either instance, I'm going to have to supplement my child's education with Biblical truth.

Someone put my mind at ease!

And thanks for reading!

 

[JonC]

I believe the choice of schools is an individual issue that parents should carefully, and prayerfully, consider.

There are pros and cons.

Christian schools are not equal. Public schools ate not equal. Children are not the same, and their needs are not the same.

Parents need to pray about what is best for their children. If you choose Public schools then do not allow the opinions of others to change your mind. If you choose Christian schools do not let opinions of others change your mind. Pray about it, decide, and continue praying for your children.

 

[Reynolds]

I believe the choice of schools is an individual issue that parents should carefully, and prayerfully, consider.

There are pros and cons.

Christian schools are not equal. Public schools ate not equal. Children are not the same, and their needs are not the same.

Parents need to pray about what is best for their children. If you choose Public schools then do not allow the opinions of others to change your mind. If you choose Christian schools do not let opinions of others change your mind. Pray about it, decide, and continue praying for your children.

But all other things being somewhat equal, a school that teaches Baptist doctrine, non revisionist history, prays daily, and has chapel services is superior to it's public funded Godless counterpart.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

I don't think a Christian should ever send their children to public school, unless there is a conflict of Biblical duties, I.E bills can't be met unless the kids go to public school. I would not send my kids to live in a sewer for 8 hours a day.

I think that case is extremely rare. If folks quit going out to eat, stop binge buying things on Amazon, and get rid of the $1000 "phones" they'd have enough money for bills.

When your kids aren't with you for 8 hours a day, they're not going to reflect your values. They're going to reflect the values of the people they're with for 8 hours. Very bad idea.

 

[JonC]

But all other things being somewhat equal, a school that teaches Baptist doctrine, non revisionist history, prays daily, and has chapel services is superior to it's public funded Godless counterpart.

All things being equal, perhaps. We do have to evaluate the quality of the education (not just the biblical doctrine taught) and the opportunities avaliable.

But if the choices are equal then it would be best to learn in a Christian environment.

 

[JonC]

I don't think a Christian should ever send their children to public school, unless there is a conflict of Biblical duties, I.E bills can't be met unless the kids go to public school. I would not send my kids to live in a sewer for 8 hours a day.

I think that case is extremely rare. If folks quit going out to eat, stop binge buying things on Amazon, and get rid of the $1000 "phones" they'd have enough money for bills.

When your kids aren't with you for 8 hours a day, they're not going to reflect your values. They're going to reflect the values of the people they're with for 8 hours. Very bad idea.

My experience was different. My son's High School principal was also his study group leader at church. For my son public school worked out very well. He had many opportunities that were not avaliable in Christian schools in are area and he had the opportunity to witness to classmates. It helped him to see the world for what it is while seeing human life for what it is. The dichotomy between the World and God, combined with caring for people who are not saved, is a lesson that contributed to his call to the ministry. It is why he works with Christian outreach programs and is preparing to go on a mission trip during his summer break.

That said, this is my families experience. My son had a tight knit group of Christian friends and classmates throughout his public education.

There are hood arguments for choosing Christian schools as well.

There is simply not a "one size fits all" answer.

 

[Dr. Bob]

In 1970 when the Christian School movement was strong in the south (fueled by segregation in some areas) but infancy in the north, I didn't think much about it when my son was little. I worked as a sub in the small-town public school but was dumbfounded to see WHAT was being taught, WHAT was not being taught, plummeting test scores and dress/conduct even plays the music. No wonder nearly 1 in 3 Wisconsin kids when to private (most parochial Lutheran, Catholic, or Amish) schools. Parents paid property tax to fund the government school but sent kids at added expense to private.

By the time my son was in kindergarten in 1976, our little church of 90 members in a town of 585 had land, a building and 28 K-6 students. In a BAPTIST Christian school in Wisconsin! Our next parish has an established school with 120 K-12, including choirs, vb/bb/soccer/track, et al. The next had 150 students including marching band and every student had a computer (think 1986). THEN we went into mission work in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming, with no private school except tri-parish Catholic. So, we home-schooled then on.

I am prejudiced into thinking for MY kids (and now 15 grandkids) the difference of a Christian school and government education is clear. Bit agree 100% that this is a decision that varies from family to family, and community to community. If asked I will be open to PRIVATELY discuss it (personal choices are not mine to air on a volatile place like this.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Short history lesson: In America after the introduction of government (tax paid) education in the 1840's, literacy rates rose. Prior to that, schools were private and privileged, with many limited to basics. The problem was quickly noted by Roman Catholics and then by Lutherans, that many of the teachers were evangelical Christians. Children in those schools were influenced away from the strict doctrines of Catholicism/Protestantism and toward a more fundamental Christianity. This was NOT what they wanted.

To keep indoctrinating children in their denominational faith, there was an exponential rise in "parochial" or parish schools. Places like Wisconsin had hundreds, then thousands of parochial schools. Soon 1 in 3 children were in those institutions.

But society changed and by the 1960's the public/government schools were now being flooded with secular humanists and non-religious. Evangelical Christians and their mores were not in vogue. They were no longer seen as an evangelical threat to children now in parochial schools. You know what happened. Without the fear of sending kids to public schools and the desire of parents who wanted all the "extras" (programs, sports, buildings) they were paying taxes for (and no tuition!), there was a rapid/precipitous decline in parochial schools, starting with colleges and dropping down into 1-12. (Most saw pre-school, K4 and K5 as cash-cow for financing the remaining consolidated schools.)

At the same time there was a realization among evangelical parents that the trouble now was in the government schools and their philosophies. The shoe was on the other foot! Parents began to see the damage done to students (academic watering down, moral issues, lack of parental input - think of the poor parents in Loudin County, VA, coming to grips with a school board that has a hell-bent liberal agenda in recent months). Private Christian schools sprung up all over the world in thousands of little churches and communities.

Of course, in recent years Christian school parents have also found out how hard it is (and costly) to have a private school. Most don't have large denominational support for buildings and costs. And schools in a church often mean conflicts far more than the color-of-the-carpet fights of typical Baptist congregations .

So today we have a good core of parochial schools still in the Catholic/Lutheran sector, another core of evangelical/fundamentalist/Baptist Christian schools, a growing segment now Home-educating their children, and the government schools we all pay taxes for whether we think they're doing a good job or not.

 

[agedman]

I am very hesitant to contribute to this thread. The reason being that I have taught in both public and private institutions, and have seen how both contain problems.

@Dr. Bob is correct that the late 60's saw the rise of the "Christian School movement." The thinking was to raise an army of believers by indoctrination. The results were generations of children learning to pretend. They could spout all the right words, learn all the Bible verses, and live ungodly. Public schools were mocked, and what is really sad is that in many areas the only light those schools had was extinguished when the godly students were taken into the "Christian School."

The Christian schools provided the "shelter," but that also resulted in parents and teachers who did not allow for "free exchange." That is to say, a child of a public school may come home and talk about their class discussion. Perhaps it might be objectionable to the parent, but the opportunity to explain to the child the Scripture principles would impact that child. Unfortunately, when the enemy came by the desires of the flesh, to the Christian school student, few had the perception built upon hardened experience of practical Christian training among the ungodly to withstand the onslaught.

Truth is, the holy huddle of the Christian Schools was a playground for the devil.

Public schools got increasingly bold in the ungodliness, and even to this day are refusing to bend to the view of those who present a godly approach. We lost the ground of the battlefield by retreating into a "safe haven" that was a failure.

Now, do not take this as an endorsement of the Public schools. But, parents need to be involved.

Children will learn more from their parents than the schools could ever teach.

Children will learn how to handle conflicts of thought. They will be adept at being able to write with approval as a Daniel in the king's court, yet be known to keep the high standard of Godliness and character.

This post has been my opinion, and here is one more.

A "Christian School" should not be a haven for believers. They should set the tuition as low as possible. The church should contribute heavily to the upkeep and care of the school. It is to be considered a mission field. A parent from the time of enrollment should have continual contact with the staff of the church, and outreach of the church will bring to that parent guidance, helps, and whatever else is necessary to minister to the family.

The Christian School should have state accredited staff, and as much as is possible abide by state education policies. This is to remove the criticism of low standards that typically follows the home/school movement. I realize it is a false claim, but the claim exists. Why give reason for the enemy to pick a fight. There is enough fodder (for) all anyway.

Lastly, EVERY student in the Christian School must take piano and/or organ lessons from pre-K and throughout.

Studies have shown that the social, intellectual, and maturity of those who have had consistent piano lessons are far more acute then those who have not. A now long ago study showed the base line intelligence increase as much as 15 points on a standard IQ test. Nothing other than piano and./or organ lessons showed any increase, and many other methods actually showed a decrees. One of those (remarkably) was athletic programs. Seems that Paul was right and "bodily exercise profits little."

 

[Judith]

This was a good topic. To continue:

Just because an organization puts the term "Christian" on its door does not mean it is a best choice. If they had bad doctrine I would personally rather my child in a public school that did not teach theological error as long as that public school was not teaching some form of anti-biblical beliefs including evolution. We must ALWAYS do diligence in checking out what we allow our children to be schooled on. It is not about the lessor of two evils as that is still choosing evil. It is about getting it right from the start. If ever there was a time when we need to take every effort to protect our children error it is today. Home schooling is one way. Yes it may take serious sacrifice, but in the end it may also save a soul from error.

 

[agedman]

Just because an organization puts the term "Christian" on its door does not mean it is a best choice. If they had bad doctrine I would personally rather my child in a public school that did not teach theological error as long as that public school was not teaching some form of anti-biblical beliefs including evolution. We must ALWAYS do diligence in checking out what we allow our children to be schooled on. It is not about the lessor of two evils as that is still choosing evil. It is about getting it right from the start. If ever there was a time when we need to take every effort to protect our children error it is today. Home schooling is one way. Yes it may take serious sacrifice, but in the end it may also save a soul from error.

I like that you (as a parent) are thinking through your selection of educational choices.

I have taught extensively in both private Christian schools and public schools.

Not being from the land north of the Red river, I don't know much about their educational thinking, but I can say that while teaching in both, we always encouraged parents to interact with the education of their children.

Here is a study done during the 80's that may give you some insight to pass along. I know longer have the study, nor the name or reference available, but the information is important.

Any child will thrive up to third grade in a school that has a strong educational environment, no matter the home life.

After third grade, no matter the educational environment, unless the home life of the child is stable and educationally supported (requiring study and accountability for high performance standards) there is a very high percentage of children who do not succeed in the education. Not just in the matter of failing, but in the matter of reaching potential and life skill success. In other words, the home is the critical factor.

Those children who - despite the lack of supportive home - thrived, were those children who became through the efforts of mentors, teachers, peers skilled in self realizing accountability, high standards, and self discipline. FEW are the children who choose to not lower their standards.

I have mixed thoughts concerning the home school movement. Perhaps it is that I have seen some real problems that go unaddressed and some need of accountability held among home school folks. But, it has been a few decades from the last time I was involved, so things may have changed.

Certainly hope so.

 

[Judith]

I like that you (as a parent) are thinking through your selection of educational choices.

I have taught extensively in both private Christian schools and public schools.

Not being from the land north of the Red river, I don't know much about their educational thinking, but I can say that while teaching in both, we always encouraged parents to interact with the education of their children.

Here is a study done during the 80's that may give you some insight to pass along. I know longer have the study, nor the name or reference available, but the information is important.

Any child will thrive up to third grade in a school that has a strong educational environment, no matter the home life.

After third grade, no matter the educational environment, unless the home life of the child is stable and educationally supported (requiring study and accountability for high performance standards) there is a very high percentage of children who do not succeed in the education. Not just in the matter of failing, but in the matter of reaching potential and life skill success. In other words, the home is the critical factor.

Those children who - despite the lack of supportive home - thrived, were those children who became through the efforts of mentors, teachers, peers skilled in self realizing accountability, high standards, and self discipline. FEW are the children who choose to not lower their standards.

I have mixed thoughts concerning the home school movement. Perhaps it is that I have seen some real problems that go unaddressed and some need of accountability held among home school folks. But, it has been a few decades from the last time I was involved, so things may have changed.

Certainly hope so.

When I recommend homeschooling I do so for those who are Christians that will make all diligence to do so in a Christ honoring manner, NEVER unbelievers. In those circumstances there is almost never a failure.

 

[agedman]

When I recommend homeschooling I do so for those who are Christians that will make all diligence to do so in a Christ honoring manner, NEVER unbelievers. In those circumstances there is almost never a failure.

That is good to read!

Ultimately, the diligence of home schooling if applied to public or private educational systems would probably be just as revealing.

As I posted, it ultimately resolves to the home. The lack of home structure, educational expectations, daily encouragement and accountability, ... go for a child thriving.

BTW, I meant to include that the smarter the child the more they will thrive in a highly structured environment. This is were some of the public persuasion had (have) it wrong. They think the smart child needs unlimited freedom of choice and expression. That is failed thinking!

Also, though again, the reference material is long past from my hands, but a solid study showed that ONLY piano and organ lessons increased the basic IQ of a child by as much as 15 points. Nothing else showed growth, and a number of items actually showed the base line IQ decline.

The reasoning was that the interdisciplinary aspects of the demands to play the instruments brought more of the mind to use.

Also, as in tracking the follow up showed those who took the lessons were socially more aware, self disciplined, and less likely to engage in self destructive behavioral choices.