Purpose Driven Life

I am only through the first week. Let me finish it first.

 

I saw this recently and thought,oh,no...if it is antyhing like the Purpose Driven Chruch,we are in trouble....I just have a problem with his overall philosophy. It contradicts much in the Bible.

 

Just curious Molly, have you read either of Warren's books "The Purpose Driven Church" or "The Purpose Driven Life"?

 

I am in the worship section. Cool.

 

I have read the Purpose Driven Church about 4 times. My former church was okay with the philosophy,needless to say,we are not there anymore. I tried to read it open mindedly,but scripture kept coming to mind to condradict many of his *ideas*....Like I stated before(above) I only saw the new book at the bookstore...no,I have not read it. I made the statement saying that if it is like the other one,(based on the one I had read)I would not think it would be a good book to read.

 

</font>[/QUOTE]Cute....This topic has been brought up many times in the past and there are many different views,it's okay. You don't have to laugh,like you have never heard anyone be not *for* the book. There are many who have reasonable questions abour its philosophy,and what it teaches the church to be. I'm just stating my opinion after much study. My husband and I are were open to it,we read alot,and wanted to see what all this ralk was about. We can not support a seeker friendly mentality that desires for the church to be what the world wants. We desire for in depth expository preaching from the pulpit and appreciate a high view of God and His word. Rick Warren has some good ideas,but they are just ideas,and I tend to want to stay biblical in all our ideas. I'm not bashing him,I just don't appreciate his philosophpy of ministry. Therefore,I hope his other book is not similar...I have not read it.

 

Molly:

Could you point us to those unbiblical statements Warren makes and endorses?

 

Yes,I will,but I will have to do that later. The book is in my husband's study somewhere with all our notes in it...I will have to find it and then get back to you. Also,we have an out of town soccer tournament this weekend,so I may not get to post much. I am talking about the Purpose Driven Church,not his new one....I have not read it.

Maybe someone else can comment and help out here,since it may be a while until I can get to it.

 

I think it is biblical.

 

Okay,I will try to voice my opinion as graciously as possible,understanding that there are many who do not see any problems with it...that is fine...it is between you and the Lord. I am not wanting to convince anyone or argue about it. What I said earlier was that his overall philosophy contradcist what I believe the Bible to teach about the church. This is how church growth works,believers come to church,they are equipped to go out and share Christ to others in the marketplace,work,etc...then they are saved,then they come to church...because they are believers. His philosophy is to make church comfortable and attractive so that non-believers will come to church. See how those contradict eachother?

Some qoutes in the book that I see as red flags:

1)pg.39...he says that if you come to Saddleback from another church,this church is not for you...it is for the unchurched. So,be prepared to let that be your focus,to reach the unchurched.(this is not word for word)

I bleieve the church is for those who love God and are already believers. This is based on the fact,that we come together to worship,study scriptures,have christian fellowship....this happens when you are a believer. I do not mind unchurched or unbelievers to come to church,I think that is fine,but it is not the focus,it should be God. Maybe having a specil evangelistic activity to specifically ask someone to come would be more appropriate,but not make the church differetn to cater to unbelievers,that puts the focus on man.

2)pg 59 He states that few lives are ever genuinely changed in a traditional church setting...he is missing the point that God's Word and His sovereign election changes us to glorify Him,not man's church ideas,or plans. It is God that does the changing,not techniques of man...once again,man centered.

3)pg 62...he says never criticize what God is blessing,does he think a large church is eveident of God's blessings? So,take doctrine out and see the results(which is pragmatic thinking) and okay it by that alone.....man's ideas.

4)pg 65...he says this alarming statement that I can not seem to get over....."I contend that when a church continues to use methods that no longer work,it is being unfaithful to Christ"

What? What in the world does methods have to do with bible faithfulness and true living godly...the test is in what the focus is....biblcal teaching,sound doctrine,believers living out the Word...he never says anything about these things....just talks about methods that don't work...I'm here to state that God's Word always works,regardless of the foolishness of man. God's word is sufficient for every area of life...so Preach the Word. Quit focusing on what man thinks works or doens't work....man centered,God's word is not so important.....

5)pg66 He qoutes someone and says that "A Church can be staright as a gun barrel doctrinally,but just as empty spiritually".

How?He just makes these statements with no biblical evidence to back them. Doctrine is very important. Sound doctrine is what holds it all together.

I could go on,but I am very tired and have to leave for a soccer tournament in the morning. I justr didn't want you to think I was avoiding the question.

Also,Rick Warren may be a great guy....I personally do not have an issue with him personally,but I can not support his thinking on what the church should be. Maybe his new book is better...Sorry this is so long,I have many more notes in my book,but it would take me forever to type it out. Maybe you can see my heart on this without me doing that!

Thanks!

 

He does not believe in building the numbers by adding someone elses members, but by salvations. The church is to share the gospel for the purpose of salvations. I think Jesus sent us out to do just that. I don't think he is saying the focus is to be anything but God, He is the reasons for salvation, and us sharing the gospel.

It is if those are new salvations, and not taking some elses members. salvation is always a blessing from God.

And the problem is? People change and our methods of reaching them must also change, they used have barn raisings, I don't think that works anymore for sharing the gospel. I think thats all he is saying. I knew that much before i ever hear dof him.

I'm not sure that I am even seeing a problem with this, it seems to be nothing more then a difference of opinion, and misunderstandings. It seems to me the first purpose for the church is worship, whats the problem with that? Evangelisim? Fellowshipping?

 

There are some things that are biblical in his book,but there is a lot that I have a problem with...it is like mixing Truth with some error in a subtle way. It goes deeper with me than just opinion....but that's okay,it has been a learning process with my husband and I and we are still learning and growing. We,personally, can not be in a church that holds to this way of thinking. His overall philosophy for the church is evangelism. I think when that is number one,it is like starting out fundamentally off,so everything is then off. Like if you miss the top button when buttoning your blouse,than all the other buttons are off. I read that once in an artice on why the church is wrong when they make evangelism its number one purpose,then anything goes,doctrine is lowered,everything is focused on making the lost come to church ....I disagree with his point that the church's main purpose(or one of them) is for evangelization...I believe it is the responsibility of each believer. The people are saved outside of the church,they come to church because they are believers,and they become like the church,not the church become like them.

 

ack.

The story behind point one, Molly, (and I haven't read any of what anyone else posted) is that we shouldn't be swapping members. We should be winning the lost and taking them to church.

 

The rest goes with how we do church.

Why be so traditional, among other things? How is what we are doing so biblical?

 

I think there are many churches not being biblical,(there are very few probably)but that doesn't mean we accept everything that comes around as a new and great idea. Making church appeal to non-believers makes the church not what it should be. The NT church was very concerned with doctrine and equipping those who were believers,then those would go out to share the gospel with others. When the church becomes entirely evangelsitic,it hurts the equipping and discipling of the ones that are already believers,so you have a church full of baby chrisitians.

Maybe his new book is more geared toward the believer being evangelsitic,I could go for that.

 

A very balanced article on the church growth movements can be found here.

[ October 27, 2002, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]

 

From what I understand, this is very much apart of the purpose driven church, discipling and growing christians.

 

Helen,I agree with most of the article you posted,thanks for sharing that.


I have also read some very good articles on movements of church growth that opened my eyes to things I had never thought about....it is so easy to get caught up in pragmatism,which is *what works*. He addressed some concerns I have had,but did not mention,like the philosophy to attract a *saddleback Sam*,etc.

It takes digging deep and studying Truth to really see what is right in this area. I want to continue studying and seeking the Lord,so that I am not drawn into what *seems* to be good or right. One of the reasons we are in the church we are in now is that the leadership is very strong and focused on doing things biblically. It has evangelsitic meetings at special times,like for example,we had John Blanchard come speak on Does God believe in Atheist?(His newest book). It was evangelsitic in nature,we invited anyone that may be atheiist or unsaved(this was on a night different than a regular church service time)....but the church is not gearing everything towards evangelizing to the point of making everything for that purpose. In fact,when we come together it is for believers,to edify and build up the body of Christ to the glory of God,then we go out to share with others. Evangelism seems to be Saddleback's main concern,and they don't want anyone else there except those who are wanting to do just that and only that. That is what his book suggets anyway.

Rick Warren speaks on a church being healthy and it will grow....that is right,so if a church is sold out to glorifying God,preaching the Word,people becoming more holy in their lives,why do they feel the need to implement all these new ideas and techniques? Just a lot of fluff,IMO. The church that is faithful to the Word is healthy.