BobRyan said:
...My argument is that for Paul to say that "No one seeks after God NOT even ONE" and for Him to argue that ALL FLESH is accountable and condemned by the Law of God (still in the NT - hint hint) and for him to argue that "EVERY MOUTH IS SHUT" (even in the NT hint hint) when it comes to the Law of God - he is including himself and must be referring to the sinnful fallen nature at least to some degree.
Bob,
bmerr here. The points you listed are in fact all made by Paul. However, I do not believe that the fact that all have sinned neccessitates a sinful nature.
I've been thinking about this for a while now, so let me run this by you, and tell me what you think.
Calvinism teaches the doctrine of Total Hereditary Depravity. But since God is the Father of spirits (Heb 12:9; Ecc 12:7), it would seem contrary to His nature to give humans spirits tainted with sin.
An argument I have heard used to support this teaching (THD) goes like, "No one has to teach a child to lie, or be selfish, so this behavior must come from the sinful nature."
It's a compelling argument, because anyone who has spent much time around children can tell you that they often do such things without ever having been told how. But the idea that God gives children spirits stained with sin is simply abhorrent to me, since it seems to blame God for the sins committed by man.
So how can the Nature of God be reconciled with the often bad behavior of little children? Here's what I've come up with.
Adam and Eve knew two things: what God had commanded, and what they wanted. They certainly had no sinful nature, and yet they sinned by choosing what they wanted instead of what God had commanded.
Children, on the other hand, only know one thing: what they want. The knowledge one has is all one has to make decisions by. When a child is selfish, he does not know that God has commanded us to care for the desires of others. He just knows that he wants the toy truck, and he doesn't care that another chlid is playing with it, so he takes it.
Is this behavior sinful? Yes, it is. But it is not imputed to the child as sin, because the child is without the knowledge of the law, and "...sin is not imputed when there is no law" (Rom 5:13b).
Paul later (Rom 7:9) speaks of when he was a child and says, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."
Someone referred to Rom 5:12 earlier, apparently making the point that men are born sinners because of Adam's sin. But look at the text. What was passed to all men? Sin? No, not sin, but death. We do not inherit dead, sinful spirits from Adam, but dying bodies.
Time to get ready for evening service. Talk to you soon.
In Christ,
bmerr
NE seeks after God -- NOT EVEN ONE" is in the context of the sinful nature itself. Obviously at the time Paul was writing Romans 3 he was a Christian AND he instructed his readers to "follow my example".