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Question about Landmarkism and Masonry

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Ingo Breuer, Oct 21, 2005.

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  1. Ingo Breuer

    Ingo Breuer Member

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    I am still stunned over the fact how many Freemasons are in several Landmarkist Missionary Baptist Churches. Many minsters actually are Freemasons. I originally come out of a landmarkist church and I've struggled with this doctrine where you had to be baptized by some who was baptized by someone who was baptized by John the Baptist. These churches got so proud and conceited. When you go to a church that is not of their kind, then you don't "attend" or "join", no, you "take up with". My real question deals with the many parallels that I observe between occult Freemasonry and Landmarkist Baptists. So I would like to know from you, dear readers, if you know as a fact that there is a connection between Landmarkism (Baptist Briders) and Freemasonry.

    Landmarkists are often more fascinated with John the Baptist than with Jesus. So are the Masons. They have admiration for John, but reject the deity of Christ.

    Landmarkist Baptists talk about the local body of a duly constituted church. Masons practice their craft within the body of a duly constituted lodge. What in the world means "duly constituted"???

    Landmakists view The Baptist Church as an organization. Not an organism like the invisible body of Christ. The Masons likewise are an organization.

    Landmarkists see baptism as an initiation ritual into the local chuch. I've heard it preached like that. Masons believe in all kinds of initiation rituals for each degree.

    Landmarkists often talk about the lineage of their churches and how they trace themselves back to John the Baptist. Masons want to have lineage back to the Knights Templar or even further back to the times of the ancient mysteries.

    When it comes to salvation Landmarkists often spend more time preaching about their altar in church and how the sinner has to "make an altar in his heart to pray through", but they spend very little time about the sacrfice upon the altar of Calvary. Sometimes their wooden altar in church is compared to the OT altars upon which blood sacrifices were made. Strange! Just believing on Jesus Christ is too easy and landmarkists condemn that as "easy believism". Well, go on and argue with the Bible! Acts 16:31. Masons are similar. Their craft is full of ritualistic works. Simple faith is not for them.

    Some Landmarkists want to draw all kinds of parallels between the church and Solomon's Temple. After all, to them the way of salvation has been the same from Genesis to Revelation. What a surprise that Masons also have a fascination for Solomon's Temple. I don't know why! But have the Landmarkists borrowed from Masonry. Has the Masonic affiliation of many a Baptist preacher influenced their understanding of the church and Bible doctrine?

    I wonder sometimes if some of the big expounders of landmarkism were Masons, such as J.R. Graves or J.M. Pendleton. Does anyone know if they were Masons?

    Why in the world does a Landmarkist Baptist church today exclude members for believing dispensational, premillennial theology, but is fine with members who practive occult Masonry or participate in occult Halloween practicees? Why? Aren't they straining a gnat and swallowing an elephant. I have witnessed "old-fashioned Christian handshakes" and I almost got my fingers cut from all the men's Masonic rings and look at all these Masonic belts, lapel pins, etc. That gets scary! Or a lady that has gone to church all her life in a landmarkist Baptist church, and she's not sure if she's saved, hasn't joined the church, but has been a part of the Order of the Eastern Star. I wonder if this occult Masonic women's group made her swear and oath to where her primary allegiance had to be toward the lodge. There is something that holds this lady from selling out to Jesus Christ. I now belong to a church that doesn't accept Masons as members. Your allegiane has to be toward Jesus Christ and not some undefined "Supreme Being". I don't want your Supreme Being unless it is Jesus Christ, the head of the Church! AAAAMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNN!
     
    #1 Ingo Breuer, Oct 21, 2005
  2. R. Charles Blair

    R. Charles Blair New Member

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    Dear friend in Christ: I know lots of Masons who are not "landmarkers," lots of "landmarkers" who are not Masons, some who repudiate any "secret society" of any kind (H. Boyce Taylor of Murray, KY, preached against the Klan and Night Riders in the 1920's - staunch "landmarker," totally against any Masonic or other such orders; so with most of his "disciples" here in west KY over the decades since.) Most "lodges" around here are in decay, it seems - few with much active strength.
    (I am not "lodge" - never had time to be a good member of anything except a Baptist church.) But I'm a bit surprised that you haven't "made the fur fly" with your questions! Maybe your post just hasn't been up long enough. Most of our west KY "landmarkers" are also "anti-altar," as are many of my "landmark" friends in north Mississippi and northern Alabama. I know of a couple of "lodge" churches in areas where I have been privileged to serve, and neither of them has ever invited me into their pulpit. One wants "the old-fashioned altar," the other strongly opposes it.

    It seems a bit strong to "tar all with one brush" when Baptists are so individualistic. Some
    "landmarkers" I know are dispensational pre; some are historic pre; some are "a-mil"; I have known a few who have been post-mil. But thanks for an interesting topic, and for stimulating the little grey cells! Best - Charles - Ro. 8:28
     
    #2 R. Charles Blair, Oct 22, 2005
  3. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian Active Member

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    I don't know about the Landmarkists, but I can tell you that Freemasonry is very cultic.
     
    #3 Brother Ian, Oct 23, 2005
  4. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    What's in a name? Sometimes less than we may think.

    We have a lot of terms we use rather loosely to specify somethings rather closely. Christian, Baptist, Catholic, Landmarkism, Baptism, Evangelical, etc, etc.

    The present term: landmarkism has become a generality--almost a stereotype. There is still a basic doctrine which divides most Christian groups: salvation by grace, works, or grace/works--they all cannot be Bible.

    While it may be true that there are Freemasons in "Landmark" groups, these are usually Arminian in their soteriology. I am in a group of Sovereign Grace LANDMARK Bible Baptists. We do not allow such "frats" in our membership. They probably would not ask for membership--when they find out they cannot be saved by their works.

    The basic dividing line is still Arminius or Chauvin, which doctrines predate those notable gentlemen my more than 1500 years.(unless one believes the testimony of Joseph Smith Jr.)

    Jesus taught sovereign grace--so did Paul-- The Apostle, in fact all the Apostles, and, in fact, all New Testament Churches since. Actually, sovereign grace predates mankind--Jesus was the Lamb slain from before the foundation of the world.

    Regarding the Illuminati: There is a better analogy between Masons and Mormons. Joseph Smith Jr. was a Mason. Then, again, so was George Washington, a deist?, whatever that might be.

    Now what?

    Let God be found true---and every man a liar.

    Selah,

    Bro. James

    [ October 23, 2005, 10:14 AM: Message edited by: Bro. James ]
     
    #4 Bro. James, Oct 23, 2005
  5. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Ingo, there is no more of a connection between Landmarkism and Freemasonary than there is between Southern Baptists and Freemasonry or Methodists and Freemasonry or any number of other groups we could name. There are in fact some places where Landmarkers and Masons are prolific and happen to be connected. In other areas it may some other group; in another Masons may not have even made inroads there.

    Some of the things you have associated with Landmarkism is in fact only traits of Landmarkers in your area, specifically middle Tennessee old-time missionary Baptists. Landmarkism is an ecclesiology (doctrine of the church) and has no position on soteriology (doctrine of salvation), eschatology (doctrine of last things), etc. You will find Landmarkers who believe in altars, don't believe in altars, are Freemasons, not Freemasons, 5-point Calvinists, modified Calvinists, near Arminians, dispensational premillennialists, amillennialists and even postmillennialists. All this to say that what may seem to be Landmarkism based on your experience is not really the sum total of it. Hope this helps.

    As far as a list of comparisons you've made, I think one could probably take almost any group and come up with some kind of a list of how they compare to Masonry. For example, some of the things that you listed as true of Landmark Baptists are true of Primitive Baptists, and they do not even allow Masons to hold membership in their churches.
     
    #5 rlvaughn, Oct 23, 2005
  6. Ingo Breuer

    Ingo Breuer Member

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    Thank you for all your good comments. I appreciate it. I really pray that churches are going to wise up about this issue. We can't let the occult flood our churches. Masonry has a wrong soteriology. It produces self-righteousness. I hope I can educate other Christians about the occult danger. If you want to be in a Baptist church, then your life needs to belong to Jesus Christ. He saved you. He redeemed you. He set you free. He gave your the Spirit to dwell within you. The head of the chuch is Jesus Christ. I am like many of you. The Lord keeps me too busy with His work to even think about joining such an occult group. Thanks again for your comments.
     
    #6 Ingo Breuer, Oct 23, 2005
  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Kind of along this line, it has always seemed to me that being a member of Freemasonry is actually antithetical to the Landmark doctrine of the church. I guess some Landmarkers don't see their inconsistency.
     
    #7 rlvaughn, Oct 23, 2005
  8. R. Charles Blair

    R. Charles Blair New Member

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    BTW - Washington was baptized late in life by his Baptist friend and army chaplain John Gano. He had, of course, been "Church of England," and like many thoughtful contemporaries was influenced by the French rationalists for a while, but set deism aside when he saw its direction. Best - Charles - Ro. 8:28
     
    #8 R. Charles Blair, Oct 27, 2005
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