Question about Matthew 18:8

[xdisciplex]

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

How exactly do we know that this isn't meant literally? Do we only assume it because the thought that he might really have meant it is too scary? Who decides what is literal and what isn't?
How is a person which simply reads the bible supposed to know that this isn't meant literally? What if a person reads this and wants to obey Jesus and then cuts off her hand or plucks out her eye? In fact I heard that there was a woman which did this and then expected God to heal her.
Most christians will say that this woman was crazy because she did this, but what if she simply didn't know it any better? After all where do we know that this isn't meant literally?

 

[J. Jump]

Well regardless of whether one follows it literally or not to actually follow through and then expect God to heal you is a bit much

 

[Ed Edwards]

Alexandrian theologian Origen (ca. 185-ca 254) had himself
sergically castrated at about age 20 so he could devote himself
to church work. Evidently at the time he was a mentor of
new Christians from the time they 'accepted Jesus as Lord' and
were baptized (frequently a couple of years later).
Origen is dissed by pre-millinialists for being post-mill.
Origen is dissed by Conservatives for being Liberal.
Origen is dissed by Liberals for being Conservative.
Origen is dissed by Calvinists for being too Arminian.
Origen is dissed by Arminians for being too Calvinistic.
Origen is dissed by Literalists for being too Mystic.
Origen is dissed by Mystics for being too Literal.
etc. etc. ad naseua

Nobody thinks he made a good choice.
BTW, Origen is NOT a saint of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC).

But he did take his Matthew 18:8 serious ...

 

[Lacy Evans]

How exactly do we know that this isn't meant literally? Do we only assume it because the thought that he might really have meant it is too scary? Who decides what is literal and what isn't?
How is a person which simply reads the bible supposed to know that this isn't meant literally? What if a person reads this and wants to obey Jesus and then cuts off her hand or plucks out her eye? In fact I heard that there was a woman which did this and then expected God to heal her.
Most christians will say that this woman was crazy because she did this, but what if she simply didn't know it any better? After all where do we know that this isn't meant literally?

I think that the best way that I have heard it explained is this: The fact that God only tells us to pluck out one eye or cut off one hand, the (usually) favored right one, leads me to understand that it is not a literal hand and eye. Cutting off one hand would still leave another capable of doing the same thing and the same for the eye.

The point is that we need to deal swiftly and vengefully against sin in our own members. We need to be dead serious in the war with the flesh.

That being said, the warnings in the parables are, IMHO, always literal. I think that Hell(the underworls, not the LOF) is a real and eminent danger for those who refuse to deal with the flesh.

Lacy

 

[xdisciplex]

He castrated himself? Boy, how sick is this?
This can impossibly be God's will. This is just crazy. :BangHead:
Then all men had to castrate themselves. :laugh:

 

[Briguy]

Lacy made a good point. We know it is not literal by the fact that we would keep sinning whether we had any hands or any eyes. Our sin is by thought, word, and deed. We can't make ourselves Holy or righteous by what we do or don't do. It doesn't seem to take a whole lot of thought to figure that out. If people mame themselves over this verse that would be just a horrible thing as clearly it does nothing for them.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[xdisciplex]

I read something from somebody which went like:

If you're tempted to sin > run!

If you don't run then you also don't want to resist.

Is it really that easy? This would mean that if you really do not want to sin then you also will not sin. If you sin on the other hand, then you also didn't really want to resist. Is it really this way? What about the 2 natures? Isn't this a denial of the 2 natures? I mean I know exactly that there is a part which wants to sin. The problem is which part is stronger. And this is where the problem is. When you sin then doesn't this simply mean that the part of you which wants to sin, maybe we can call it the flesh, was stronger?

 

[Briguy]

xd, you are right, it is not that easy. Sometimes when we try to run we look down and our feet are in cement. Even when the desire to not sin is strong sometimes the beauty of the sinful thing is overwelming and we fail anyway. That is why we need Jesus so much because in the world of the devil, we will lose some fights, even though the result of the war has already been decided.

In Christ,
Brian

 

[Lacy Evans]

xd, you are right, it is not that easy. Sometimes when we try to run we look down and our feet are in cement. Even when the desire to not sin is strong sometimes the beauty of the sinful thing is overwelming and we fail anyway. That is why we need Jesus so much because in the world of the devil, we will lose some fights, even though the result of the war has already been decided.

In Christ,
Brian

Perhaps if we took the warning in Matt 18 to heart we might "want" to obey more than we "want" to sin.

Lacy

 

[dispen4ever]

Matthew 18:18

Have you read John 6:51-58? Do you actually believe that Jesus was speaking about his actual flesh and blood? People who believe that do not have the gift of spiritual discernment. They are reading from a worldly viewpoint, or, as the bible tells us, from the sinful nature. They look to the mental rather than the spiritual context. They fail to read just a few verses later where Jesus says quite clearly, in verse 63, that he is speaking SPIRITUALLY, not literally! It is the same with Matthew 18:18. If sin is calling you to look at things sinful, if it is beckoning you to reach further into sin, then STOP it! Look to your creator for the strength to overcome the lusts of the eye and the flesh! Any other understanding is pure poppycock.

 

[Helen]

How exactly do we know that this isn't meant literally? Do we only assume it because the thought that he might really have meant it is too scary? Who decides what is literal and what isn't?
How is a person which simply reads the bible supposed to know that this isn't meant literally? What if a person reads this and wants to obey Jesus and then cuts off her hand or plucks out her eye? In fact I heard that there was a woman which did this and then expected God to heal her.
Most christians will say that this woman was crazy because she did this, but what if she simply didn't know it any better? After all where do we know that this isn't meant literally?

If we pay attention to the euphemisms not just of their time, but of ours as well -- which are many times the same -- we will see what Jesus was talking about. When we say "Do you see?" we are actually asking, "Do you understand?" To 'see' something was to understand it. Thus, if what you thought you understood was causing you to sin, cut that 'understanding' out of your life. It is a warning against man's ability to reason when it is resulting in sin or in contrast to Holy Scripture.

In the same way, the 'hand' is activity. Give me a hand, will you? This is asking for active help. If there is an activity in your life which is leading you away from a life of following Christ and causing you to sin, lop that part of your life off -- cut it out.

Do you see? If not, maybe someone else can give me a hand with this...

 

[Link]

xdisciplex

Don't expect to find anyone on this forum who takes the verse literally. They might find it difficult to type.

 

[Briguy]

I read these verses in Romans 7 just this morning. This goes along with the littlle discussion on page 1 in regards to realistically being able to always run from doing sin. Paul says this:

20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, (AJ)I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21 I find then (AK)the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

Paul says though he WANTS to do good there is an evil present within him that leads him into sin. So it is with all of us while we wear these mortal bodies. What a joy it will be to trade this body in. Some folks can say that with a lot more excitement then others. :laugh: :laugh: :tongue3:

In Christ,
Brian