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Question about the Kingdom

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by J.D., Oct 3, 2007.

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  1. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    How does the millennial kingdom differ from the everlasting kingdom?
     
    #1 J.D., Oct 3, 2007
  2. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    If you study what "Kingdom" actually is in scripture this will clear it up.
     
    #2 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 3, 2007
  3. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    That's just the problem - I did a word search on "kingdom" in the NT. 150 verses and I couldn't seem to distinguish between the millennial kingdom and the everlasting kingdom. Am I missing something?
     
    #3 J.D., Oct 3, 2007
  4. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    As I examine the 150 NT verses containing the word "kingdom", I see some interesting patterns developing.

    Mat 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

    Mark says it this way:

    Mk 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

    Now the Acts discourse:

    1:3 to whom He also presented Himself alive after His suffering by many infallible proofs, being seen by them during forty days and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. 4 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, "which," He said, "you have heard from Me; 5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now." 6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" 7 And He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be [fn1] witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

    Could it be that the coming of the Holy Spirit was the coming of the kingdom in power, as Mark said?
     
    #4 J.D., Oct 3, 2007
  5. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] Strong's Number: 932[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] Browse Lexicon[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Original Word[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Word Origin[/FONT]basileiva[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]from (935)[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Transliterated Word[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]TDNT Entry[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Basileia[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1:579,97[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Phonetic Spelling[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Parts of Speech[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]bas-il-i'-ah [​IMG] [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Noun Feminine [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica] Definition[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
    1. royal power, kingship, dominion, rule
      1. not to be confused with an actual kingdom but rather the right or authority to rule over a kingdom
      2. of the royal power of Jesus as the triumphant Messiah
      3. of the royal power and dignity conferred on Christians in the Messiah's kingdom
    2. a kingdom, the territory subject to the rule of a king
    3. used in the N.T. to refer to the reign of the Messiah
    [/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] King James Word Usage - Total: 162[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]kingdom (of God) 71, kingdom (of heaven) 32, kingdom (general or evil) 20, (Thy or Thine) kingdom 6, His kingdom 6, the kingdom 5, (My) kingdom 4, miscellaneous 18[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica] KJV Verse Count [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Matthew[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]54[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Mark[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]19[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Luke[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]44[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]John[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]3[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Acts[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]8[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Romans[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Corinthians[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]5[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Galatians[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Ephesians[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Colossians[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1 Thessalonians[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2 Thessalonians[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2 Timothy[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Hebrews[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]3[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]James[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]2 Peter[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]1[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Revelation[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]7[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Total[/FONT]
     
    #5 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 3, 2007
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    1. According to the Synoptic gospel narratives layout, I think the kingdom of God in those instances, should have been rendered "splendor" or even "royalty," and thus the transfiguration.

    2. Then there are those who argue that the transfiguration was a foretaste of the kindgom, whether millennial or eternal, I don't know.

    3. This makes more sense to me than to say that Jesus was referring to the coming of the Spirit on Pentecost.
     
    #6 TCGreek, Oct 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2007
  7. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    The ME'ers have all been banned...so you probably won't get much input :)

    The MK is the beginning of the everlasting kingdom.
     
    #7 webdog, Oct 3, 2007
  8. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Well put. :thumbs:
     
    #8 TCGreek, Oct 3, 2007
  9. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    I was expecting input from regular dispies, not MEers. The MK is the last dispensation in time, right? So how does it differ from the everlasting kingdom? What purpose does it serve? Are you saying that the MK and EK are the same in economy, differentiated only by time?

    Edit: Also, if the MK is the beginning of the EK, then which kingdom have we been translated into presently?
     
    #9 J.D., Oct 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2007
  10. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    The Kingdom of God is the rule and reign, power and authority of God period. That nevger changes regardless of ones view of dispensations. During the millenial period Christ is still soveriegn, He still rules and reigns, He still has power and authority just as He always has. Now if you want to debate dispensationalism and wether or not passages that speak to Christ's literal rule from an earthly seat for 1000 years is allegorical that is another subject. It clearly has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God / Kingdom of Heaven spoken of throughout the gospels.
     
    #10 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 3, 2007
  11. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    If there is only one type of kingdom, and that kingdom is already here, then we need to change the Lord's prayer. "Thy kingdom come" is no longer necessary. ;)
     
    #11 npetreley, Oct 3, 2007
  12. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    What is meant in this verse is defined by the following sentence. Since the Kingdom of God is the rule and reign the power and authority of God calling out for His Kingdom to come simply means to havge his will accomplished on earth. The spreading of the Gospel, the turning of hearts of men toward God. The fullfilment of all God's will on earth.
     
    #12 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 3, 2007
  13. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Npet, 2 Tim: I agree with 2 Tim that there is an over-arching unified kingdom under God's rule, but there is also different administrations of this kingdom in different times. I do think there is a kingdom "coming" in the future which will be different from the present kingdom inasmuch as it will be a "pure" kingdom, free from sin, on a purified earth, in a state of perfect fellowship between God and man. I would call this coming kingdom the "everlasting" kingdom.

    My problem is that I can't find any rational, logical, purpose that a MK would serve to accomplish this end. And I struggle to see any scripture proofs that differentiates the MK from the EK.
     
    #13 J.D., Oct 3, 2007
  14. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Is it logical or rational in the eyes of man for a God of all to die for the sins of the finite created? Man's reason and logic does not siut God's purposes.
     
    #14 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 3, 2007
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Theocracy begins day 1 of the MK and never ends. Even within the "everlasting kingdom" you have the "dispensation" of 1000 years where satan will be bound, released, then banished forever. At the conclusion of this, the "everlasting kingdom" continues, not begins. Once Christ returns for the second time, that is the beginning of His kingdom, and that will never end.
     
    #15 webdog, Oct 3, 2007
  16. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Okay then, let's forget logic and rationality. Can you show me a passage in the New Testament where "kingdom" clearly does not refer to either the present "heavenly" kingdom, or the kingdom "within you", or the "new Jerusalem" (the future everlasting abode of the saved)?
     
    #16 J.D., Oct 3, 2007
  17. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Revelation 20:1-6

    Are you suggesting that the Millenial Kingdom is not in scripture?
     
    #17 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 3, 2007
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  18. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Let's just say that I'm flirting with amillenial ideas.

    When I read the book of the Revelation, I see all that figurative language. What compelling evidence is there that I should not take the thousand years figuratively also?

    Let's compare scripture with scripture. Is the term "a thousand years" ever used in a figurative sense?


    Is this a literal thousand years, or is it a metaphore for something else?


    Same question.


    Again.


    And now, right in the middle of a "vision", am I supposed to take this thousand years as an exact period of time when that terminology has not been used that way in scripture before?

    So what does a thousand years figuratively represent? A long period of time. But God is not affected by time as we are. It's a long time to us, but to God it's virtually nothing. Let's look at Peter's discourse:



    A thousand years is a long time to us, but God is patient and will wait till His purpose is fulfilled.

    BTW in which dispensation is God longsuffering to usward, willing that all should come to repentance? That would be the church age, right? And so most of the reformers saw the thousand years as the church age - a long time in which Satan would be bound (can not access the elect church at will), and the born-again elect would reign with Christ as citizens of the heavenly kingdom.
     
    #18 J.D., Oct 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 3, 2007
  19. 2 Timothy2:1-4

    2 Timothy2:1-4 New Member

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    Now where did you read that Satan would be bound?
     
    #19 2 Timothy2:1-4, Oct 3, 2007
  20. JustChristian

    JustChristian New Member

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    Have you noticed that the term "Kingdom of Heaven" is only used in Mathew? So much for those who try to make a distinctive between that and "Kingdom of God." There is none. It seems that was Mathew's preferred term for Heaven.
     
    #20 JustChristian, Oct 4, 2007
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