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Question-- Demon Possession
- Thread starter LTUM2
- Start date
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say there is an official baptist position on this.
Jesus had this to say but I find this to be a difficult passage that may or may not directly answer your question depending on the interpretation.
Jesus had this to say but I find this to be a difficult passage that may or may not directly answer your question depending on the interpretation.
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There isn't an official Baptist position on this. But what is clear is that to believe a Christian can be possessed is unorthodox in Christian circles.
I have the permanent indwelling of God the holy Spirit Who can never leave me. Cannot envision becoming the "possession" of another evil/demonic spirit.
Such would be inconsistent with the biblical teaching on the holy Spirit.
Now can I be "depressed" or "obsessed" or "distressed" or "oppressed"? Youbetcha.
Such would be inconsistent with the biblical teaching on the holy Spirit.
Now can I be "depressed" or "obsessed" or "distressed" or "oppressed"? Youbetcha.
Tom Butler
New Member
Several years ago, I was leading the singing in a revival. I was so sing after the offering, and while that was going on, I suddenly felt a great heaviness on me. It is difficult to describe what I felt, but I could hardly get to my feet to walk to the pulpit.
One of the deacons in my home church was there, and almost in desperation, I asked him to pray for me, that God would give me the liberty to sing. As he prayed, I felt the heaviness lift from me.
Right after the solo, the pastor preached--on demons. After the service, I told him what happened to me. He said, "I'm not surprised. Something happens every time I preach on demons."
Was it demonic oppression, or something else? All I know is that I had never felt it before, and never since.
One of the deacons in my home church was there, and almost in desperation, I asked him to pray for me, that God would give me the liberty to sing. As he prayed, I felt the heaviness lift from me.
Right after the solo, the pastor preached--on demons. After the service, I told him what happened to me. He said, "I'm not surprised. Something happens every time I preach on demons."
Was it demonic oppression, or something else? All I know is that I had never felt it before, and never since.
Marcia
Active Member
Tom, I don't know what you felt but it was not possession.
This issue comes up in my ministry all the time and due to some very bad spiritual warfare teachings in the church, I've had to investigate this, including talking to my pastor and others and searching scripture. There is no case of a believer in the Bible being possessed (I've looked at every single case that people use for this brought up), and possessed means controlled by (not owned by as some spir. warfare people suggest).
I've seen people get obsessed with the topic of demons - it's very sad because it becomes a bondage in itself.
Dr. Bob gave the answer on this very well.
This issue comes up in my ministry all the time and due to some very bad spiritual warfare teachings in the church, I've had to investigate this, including talking to my pastor and others and searching scripture. There is no case of a believer in the Bible being possessed (I've looked at every single case that people use for this brought up), and possessed means controlled by (not owned by as some spir. warfare people suggest).
I've seen people get obsessed with the topic of demons - it's very sad because it becomes a bondage in itself.
Dr. Bob gave the answer on this very well.
Like Jon-Marc, it is the prevailing doctrine in most Bible Baptist Fellowship churches I have been a member of in the Philippines.
Surprisingly, the pastors who subscribe to the doctrine are mostly the "uneducated" in the world's view, those who have not held professional positions prior to ministry, or have not stepped foot in college. There are a few of those on the "other side of the road" who do subscribe to the doctrine, though.
The majority of those who have had college education, or have held professional jobs, before going to ministry, tend to shun the idea and dismiss it as "unprovable", and "maybe".
In his book Under the Overpass by Mike Yankoski he describes this street character he calls Henry as "..constantly moving, rolling his eyes, rolling his head around on his neck, swinging his arms wildly......."
In one instance, in a park in San Francisco, Yankoski writes that "as soon as his foot stepped into the park, every dog in the courtyard began barking viciously, ears back, hair raised, fangs bared".
Just the guy's presence transformed the docile, tame dogs into a vicious, leash-straining pack. In fact during that incident some did manage to break from their leash and actually attacked him.
I've seen a lot of possible as well as unmistakable demonic activity in people and in places in my time in the Philippines, but, so what ? Even demons have been brought under the power of the blood, and if you're a child of God, then you are under the blood and its protection.
That doesn't mean you can mess around with demons, though.
Surprisingly, the pastors who subscribe to the doctrine are mostly the "uneducated" in the world's view, those who have not held professional positions prior to ministry, or have not stepped foot in college. There are a few of those on the "other side of the road" who do subscribe to the doctrine, though.
The majority of those who have had college education, or have held professional jobs, before going to ministry, tend to shun the idea and dismiss it as "unprovable", and "maybe".
In his book Under the Overpass by Mike Yankoski he describes this street character he calls Henry as "..constantly moving, rolling his eyes, rolling his head around on his neck, swinging his arms wildly......."
In one instance, in a park in San Francisco, Yankoski writes that "as soon as his foot stepped into the park, every dog in the courtyard began barking viciously, ears back, hair raised, fangs bared".
Just the guy's presence transformed the docile, tame dogs into a vicious, leash-straining pack. In fact during that incident some did manage to break from their leash and actually attacked him.
I've seen a lot of possible as well as unmistakable demonic activity in people and in places in my time in the Philippines, but, so what ? Even demons have been brought under the power of the blood, and if you're a child of God, then you are under the blood and its protection.
That doesn't mean you can mess around with demons, though.
Gold Dragon
Well-Known Member
I have an acquaintance who is a Philippino Christian and she is one of those people who sees, hears and senses things in the spirit world that the rest of us do not. It isn't something she is proud of or boasts about. She is more scared of it than anything but it is something she has learned to live with.pinoybaptist said:
Anyway, I got the impression from her that dabbling in the spirit world was very common where she was from in the Philippines. Would you say this is true of the Philippines in general?
Gold Dragon said:
Yes, it depends on where in the Philippines you happen to be. In the bigger cities, like Manila, where things are more diverse and the outlook a little more "sophisticated", for want of a better word, you won't find much dabbling in the spirit world, but you do find traces and signs of the incursion into the spirit world, if you knew where to look.
In the provinces, though, things are a little more different.
I know of an island province where it is said more than half the population are either witches, or spellcasters. In my own mother's birth island, I've seen things that would make me sound "daft" if I shared it with others, so I mostly kept silent about it, even after conversion. I worked in a mining company as Ex-O for the company's security department. The mining site was high up and deep in the mountains, and I was also in charge of the Roving Patrol that moves around the camp at night.
That afternoon we had a heavy drinking party, and I went to bed around 1 am and had to get up at 2:30 am to go on patrol, and the staff house assigned to me was known to be "infested", and being a city boy I thought the belief to be both curious and stupid.
So, drunk and all that, I spoke to no one in particular and said, "alright, guys, I need to get up at 2:30 am so will you please make sure I do that by shaking my bed hard and knocking on these walls" ?. I didn't really believe it will happen, and I knew the guards will come for me, anyway, but that's exactly what happened. I woke up to a violently shaking bed and rapid stacatto of knocking on every wall in that room.
I ran to the checkpoint 50 yards away in briefs and nothing else, my uniform, boots, and gun in a bundle in my hands, and dressed up at the checkpoint, under the curious gaze of my patrol members.
The thing is that the Philippines is by majority Roman Catholic, and the mixture of folk religion and superstition with Roman Catholicism results in beliefs and practices that are on the darker side, much as you see in other Roman Catholic-dominated countries like Mexico (?). I forgot what they call it over there.
Tom Butler
New Member
Marcia, I should have been clearer. I didn't consider my experience an instance of possession, but of oppression. Dr. Bob is on the money, as well.Marcia said:
marcia...tom....dr bob....
could oppression (aka demon influence sans possession, in a believer) actually result in a contortion of face muscles, such as in the more dramatic cases of possession?
i am not clear on the difference between possession and oppression (influence)
i guess i am asking this: so, if a believer can't be possessed, then what demonic influences SIMILAR in effect to possession.... could befall him?
i do have reasons for asking. this is serious.
thanks all, in advance
could oppression (aka demon influence sans possession, in a believer) actually result in a contortion of face muscles, such as in the more dramatic cases of possession?
i am not clear on the difference between possession and oppression (influence)
i guess i am asking this: so, if a believer can't be possessed, then what demonic influences SIMILAR in effect to possession.... could befall him?
i do have reasons for asking. this is serious.
thanks all, in advance
Marcia
Active Member
LTUM2 said:
I don't think facial contortions would be oppression.
Oppression is an attack from the outside - external.
Possession is internal in the sense of being controlled by demons, physically and mentally to a certain extent.
If the person in question has been involved in the occult, it is not unusual for there to be oppression (which happens with both believers and unbelievers, but unbelievers more and more intensely), but possession is more rare.
If the person in question is a believer, it is not possession. Some believers read bad books and start to think they are possessed. They get obsessed with it, and the effects could be from the power of suggestion, fear, or psychosomatic.
If you PM me, I can answer you privately and in more detail. I deal with these questions all the time.
Tom Butler
New Member
I yield to Marcia here, since mu experience is limited to one occurrence, which may not be typical. I was certainly in control of my senses and my desires, and did not feel that I was under someone else's control.
But I did feel that heaviness, and weakness, almost two weak to stand up. My first thought was, so this is what a demonic attack feels like.
As soon as my fellow deacon prayed for me, it went away and has never returned.
But I did feel that heaviness, and weakness, almost two weak to stand up. My first thought was, so this is what a demonic attack feels like.
As soon as my fellow deacon prayed for me, it went away and has never returned.
marcia said:
like a hypochondriac, ech ? (lol):laugh:
LTUM2 said:
As has been said, there isn't a Baptist position on the subject.
Thus far the delineation between oppression and possession in this thread has been merely theoretical, and nothing truly practical. The problem with demonology among Baptists here in the States is that few have actually engaged a demon-possessed indiviudal, and fewer have exorcised one. Much of the advice and teaching you will receive in this thread will be based on arbitrary assumption and the inevitable vanity that results from intruding into those things they have not seen.
This I do know, we are told that disobedient Christians are to be delivered unto (given over to the power of) Satan for the destruction of the flesh. (1 Cor. 5:5). Whether his power over that individual may at times manifest itself in ways usually described as demon possession or not, I don't know. There is no Scriptural basis on which to rule it out. If the disobedience of that individual were dabbling in the occult, to me it would seem consistent with the Scriptural principle of reaping what one sows that Satan's management of that individual would manifest itself in ways we could describe as possession.
In my opinion the only real difference between Satan's oppression/possession of a believer and non-believer is that his power over the believer is temporary.
Marcia
Active Member
Being delivered over to Satan for disobedient Christans meant that they were put out of fellowship, which put them out into the world, which is under the sway of the evil one ("prince of this world," "god of this age," etc). This was a discipline for the rebellious believer so he would get really convicted and repent and then be restored (as is mentioned in 2 Cor.).
"Marcia, Marcia, Marcia," [courtesy of the Brady Bunch] :smilewinkgrin:
Excommunication is a beating, not a guilt trip.
To be "delivered" to someone is to be put into captivity to them. Saddam Hussein was "delivered" to the Iraqi's (at least to the sect that is in power now). In exactly the same sense, disobedient Christians are delivered to Satan.
They are not delivered to the world, they are delivered to Satan.
The purpose of this temporary captivity is stated in just as straightforward a manner: for the "destruction" of the lusts of the flesh, to ruin them as an invading army ruins a city. Where God's child will not yield to texts of Scripture, the ills and troubles inflicted by Satan will drive the foolishness out of him.
Excommunication is a beating, not a guilt trip.
To be "delivered" to someone is to be put into captivity to them. Saddam Hussein was "delivered" to the Iraqi's (at least to the sect that is in power now). In exactly the same sense, disobedient Christians are delivered to Satan.
They are not delivered to the world, they are delivered to Satan.
The purpose of this temporary captivity is stated in just as straightforward a manner: for the "destruction" of the lusts of the flesh, to ruin them as an invading army ruins a city. Where God's child will not yield to texts of Scripture, the ills and troubles inflicted by Satan will drive the foolishness out of him.