Featured Question for Calvinists

See Aaron's quote in my signature for the correct summary of your contention.

 

I personally believe in Election as do some other brethren on here but I believe your interpretation of how you understand it is in error. There is also mentioned in Matthew of a very elect who were or are they?

 

No, not "John Calvin's doctrines of grace." The doctrine(s) of grace have their source in the Word of God.

"Soften the blow of this harsh doctrine." Really? For God to demonstrate His grace on those of His choosing is a harsh doctrine?! The author is in effect saying :"How dare God do this! I know better! I say it is completely unjust. I admit I'm a sinner and that God is in charge, but this election stuff is too much for me to swallow. I am more merciful than the Lord. I wish He could be as fair as I am --after all, everybody deserves a chance."

 

thank you.

 

Neglect is a good description take away of the theology from an objective pov. Face it, God caused the condition of humanity. It is God's plan and God determined to set Adam up to fail that he would gain the knowledge of good and evil, to teach man the proper relationship between himself and God, so man would not follow the path of Satan and attempt to place himself above God.

Now this would sound like an evil plan, except for the fact that God did not leave all of mankind to this death and destruction without an option to escape the condition he finds himself in. Without the freewill to choose, it would certainly be observed as neglect on God's part to cherry pick a few to make worshipping robots out of and leave the rest to destruction. He could have done that from the get go without all of this drama. But praise Jesus, God has made the way for whosoever will to come to Him and be saved. Praise Him!!!! :godisgood:

 

I believe the OP is qualifying the "neglect" as a neglect to consider for salvation. Could be as you say though that neglect is not a good way to describe God's attitude towards the non-elect, for He does make sure they get thrown into hell to suffer eternity for what they were born into by no choosing of their own. Maybe a better way to describe it is as another Calvinist brother put it......

 

Calvinism doesn't teach that God neglects to save some people, Calvinism teaches that God purposely "passes by" the non-elect because it pleases him according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will. These non-elect he has ordained to dishonor and wrath to the praise of his glorious justice.

You see, God could not demonstrate his justice if he did not have someone to punish, and this is why God passes by most of mankind. God needs sinners to punish to demonstrate how great he is according to Calvinism.

It has nothing to do with sin, because God made his choice before you were ever born and had done good or evil (Rom 9:11). Sin is just the justification to punish you to glorify God. And God ordained that man would fall so that all men would have a sin nature to bring this plan to pass.

There is absolutely no neglect whatsoever, it is a very carefully devised plan.

 

I thought the bible says God laid on Jesus Christ the punishment for us, and not only us, but for the sins of the whole world! Well, maybe they missed that scripture......

 

The point is, Skandelon made an error in the OP and the Calvinists here correctly pointed it out. The non-elect are not passed by because God has neglected them, the non-elect are purposely passed by and appointed to wrath to the praise of God's glorious justice.

 

You were absolutely correct, in Calvinism God does not neglect the non-elect. God purposely and deliberately passes by the non-elect. God has ordained them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice. (WCF).

In Calvinism, before any person was ever born, and before they had done any good or evil, God had ordained that certain persons would be passed by and condemned for their sin. Therefore, sin must also be ordained to give righteous justification for this damnation that was ordained before these persons were born or ever committed sin.

Simple logic.

 

Yeah, they twist the "choosing" part. All men choose to sin and choose to obey God's commands, this is true choice, they can do either. But when it comes to choosing Jesus Christ they say man cannot unless God makes them choose, which of course is not choosing at all.

 

This is what both Cal and Non-Cal believe.

I don't think it is accurate, even from conception man is condemned, even before they have a chance to choose.

 

Calvinists are wrong when they teach that a person who is a servant of sin cannot obey the gospel. Paul directly tells us that the Romans who were servants of sin obeyed the gospel from the heart, and the moment they did they were made free from sin and became servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Plain as day.

 

Calvinism does not teach that God saves a person by dragging them kicking and screaming;

God could make ALL men freely willing by his grace, but he has ordained that the non-elect would be passed by and condemned for their sin.

There is no neglect, it is all deliberate.