Question for Reformed Baptists

Timothy

There are several Primitive Baptist churches in your area, and that should fill the bill on both counts. Need directions to sample some, let me know.

Jeff Weaver

 

I'd lean toward the non-reformed Baptist church, if they are humble (not legalistic) and open to people who have slightly different understandings.

 

Timothy:

I am a member of a "non-Reformed" Baptist church. I may very soon be the pastor of a non-reformed Baptist church. I think of both John MacArthur and John Piper, who are pastors of "non-Reformed" Baptist churches.

A church I would not join is one where the pastor/leadership is/are hostile to the biblical doctrines of Grace (Adrian Rogers; Johnny Hunt, etc.) It's one thing to be ignorant of what the Bible teaches; its another to oppose it.

 

MacArthur is not a Baptist. He decries Baptist polity.

 

MacArthur is not a Baptist. He decries Baptist polity.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks. But that was not my point but rather Calvinists leading non-Reformed churches.

 

MacArthur is not a Baptist. He decries Baptist polity.</font>[/QUOTE]Thanks. But that was not my point but rather Calvinists leading non-Reformed churches.</font>[/QUOTE]I assumed you knew he wasn't Baptist. Perhaps others might not have known.

 

MacArthur was a contributor to the Baptist Study Bible, the new revision of the Criswell Study Bibly. Just an FYI thing

 

You are correct, Tom. Yesterday I got my bible catalog in the mail from CBD. On page 23 there is an add for the NKJV Holy Bible Baptist Study Edition. Here is what the blurb says

The last time I checked John MacArthur was not a Baptist! He is, at best, a deep water Presbyterian!

 

That is funny. I would think MacArthur would be surprised to find out he is a Baptist leader.

 

Timothy, I could not choose Reformed; it would have to be Baptist. But are you sure these are your only two choices? What are the traits of the "non-reformed" Baptist churches? Are they fonts of super-shallow, hyper-evangelistic easy-believism? Are they modernistic playhouses? Are they just "non-Calvinistic" (as opposed to "anti-Calvinistic")?

I hope you are blessed to complete your search by finding the truth sounded out without uncertain sound.

 

Timothy

I will be contrary to be building consensus, and state that being Reformed is more important than being Baptist. I will take a church that preaches the soveriegnty of God over one that doens't any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Jeff.

 

Brother Jeff and I don't disagree too often, but...(1) possibly because I don't believe that Reformed and the sovereignty of God position are synonymous; (2) possibly because I don't believe that those who may have some "Arminian" persuasion necessarily deny the sovereignty of God (some people who differ on soteriology may hold that giving man some free will, etc. was the sovereign plan of God); and (3) possibly I am as much anti-paedobaptist as I am anti-Arminian; I do disagree about the "Reformed" business.

But, that being said, I would refer you to Jeff's original suggestion. There are Primitive Baptists in the Kingsport area that will supply both "baptistic" and "Calvinistic" (Reformed) needs that you seek. And the simplicity of worship, organization, style, etc. should provide a quite refreshing contrast to the Southern Baptist world you've evidently been in.

 

Dear Robert

Didn't aim to put a frown on your face. I guess we prioritize our theology a bit differently. I will be honest, I just can't abide Arminian theology. It is just wrong, IMO. (Wow, that's a harsh statement coming from me I don't usually do that.) But to me, the first and most important theological point is our view of God. And I know folks will disagree, but Arminians can't have a view of a sovereign God. Its either all of God, or its not, and by definition one gets into a works salvation in that system of thought.

Now back to my usual lurking.

J

 

Tim:
I've been in several Southern Baptist Churches and have not found a single one that agrees with me on the Sovereignity of God. In fact, I was oppossed in every Sunday School class to the point that they thought I was the one teaching a false gospel.
I would not look at any SBC. I finally found a independent baptist church that teaches the Westminister Confession and the 5-points of Calvin/Gospel. What a treasure that has been. I can actually hear the gospel being preached instead of all this works-salvation stuff that has taken over the average SBC.
James2

 

Tim, I don't want to throw this way off of your subject, but I do want to make a clarification of my view of the sovereignty of God. I do not believe Divine Sovereignty and "Calvinistic" soteriology are equivalent. My view of Divine Sovereignty is that God can do whatever He wants to do and no one has any right to question it. Therefore, theoretically, if God tells a man he has to stand on his head for an hour in order to be saved, that is what he has to do. If God says that He has divinely ordained our salvation, then that is that, period. Either way, whatever God ordains, I have no right to question. Because of this, I think a person can believe that salvation is through repentance and faith and still believe in the Divine Sovereignty of God. The fact that I believe salvation is completely of the Lord is not because I feel it logically fits my view of God (though I think it does), but I believe salvation is completely of the Lord because I feel that is what God has revealed to us in His Word. (Jeff, as far as how I prioritize my theology, I have two foundational truths - that God is, and that He has revealed Himself to us through His Word. Everything else I build on those two.)

Timothy, I haven't seen you post further on this topic. I wish you well in your search.

 

To try to make up for my last off-topic post...

TimothyW, I looked back at your first post to be sure, and found that you did say you are looking for a home church, not just a church to visit. I think this makes the difference, or at least it would to me. If we were just visiting to make do until something better was found, the Reformed Church could provide many refreshing hours of inspiring words on the grace of God (which you will not find in some Baptist churches). But you say you are looking for a home church. I take this then to mean a church you will be "joining". I just could not enter into a covenant relationship with a group that has a completely different understanding of that covenant. Reformed theology recognizes children of believers to be part of the covenant. It is not just the simpler matter of whether to baptize babies. When I have discussed this with Reformed people, it always comes out that they almost believe them to be saved simply because they are their children. They will vehemently deny this, but all with whom I've discussed this cannot satisfactorily explain what they mean apart from that idea. They are very hard-pressed to make a good case without sounding like they believe in "covenant" salvation. Mountain Retreat is a great Reformed Theology web site. Tony Warren is definitely sola scriptura and will try to give scripture for all he believes. The Reformed Forum is a discussion board similar to this one.

Finally, possibly this old adage comes into play here: if you are faced with choosing the lesser of two evils, perhaps you have not considered all the choices.

 

James,

Arminian Baptists DO NOT teach works-salvation, and they DO BELIEVE in God's sovereignty; they simply believe God in His sovereignty gave humans free will. I would hate to hold a concept of a god that would compel a person to accept him, or forceably keep a person from accepting him--that god is not the God of Jesus Christ and the New Testament.

The only ones who teach a works-salvation are certain Catholics; at the opposite extreme are those Calvinists who teach a robot-salvation. I'm glad I don't have to choose between the two.

 

Nor is it the God of Calvinism.