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Question for those who are reformed...and I guess those who are not.
- Thread starter BD17
- Start date
Exploring it...perhaps you'd like to define it for us?
Covenant theology and dispensationalism are mutually exclusive; that much I do know.
But who's right...and why? (Don't tempt me to say that this yet again demonstrates the shortcomings of sola Scriptura:tongue3: !)
But who's right...and why? (Don't tempt me to say that this yet again demonstrates the shortcomings of sola Scriptura:tongue3: !)
Thanks Webdog for such a reasoned response.:laugh:
BD --
Most Christians believe in covenant theology and the covenant community. This includes Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Reformed Churches. My understanding of Methodists is that they do as well, though I am not sure. Catholics too. In fact, there is a "Catholic Church and Covenant School" down the street. Baptists seem to be the exception. I hope this is helpful.
FOS
BD --
Most Christians believe in covenant theology and the covenant community. This includes Lutherans, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Reformed Churches. My understanding of Methodists is that they do as well, though I am not sure. Catholics too. In fact, there is a "Catholic Church and Covenant School" down the street. Baptists seem to be the exception. I hope this is helpful.
FOS
Friend of Spurgeon, I think you will find the majority of Canadian Baptists to be both reformed and covenant theolgians. Differing primarily on the matter of baptism (immersion only, and the proper candidate, believer). American Baptists seem to be all over the wall on theology, even to the point of believing that foreknowledge of God is the basis for election and predestination, rather than divine choice from before the foundation of the world.
In reformed circles, baptism of an infant of Christian parents, is promised to God in salvation (Abrahamic covenant) parallel to circumcision. In Anglican circles, infant baptism is effectual in that it answers for original sin. This is why Anglicans encourage baptism before the 9th day of birth. That child must still receive Christ as Saviour later in life, ie: at confirmation.
Cheers,
Jim
In reformed circles, baptism of an infant of Christian parents, is promised to God in salvation (Abrahamic covenant) parallel to circumcision. In Anglican circles, infant baptism is effectual in that it answers for original sin. This is why Anglicans encourage baptism before the 9th day of birth. That child must still receive Christ as Saviour later in life, ie: at confirmation.
Cheers,
Jim
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: Now that is an amazing Baptist tidbit. I wonder if the Canadian Baptists believe that God made a choice in determining the divine foreknowledge that they believe is the basis for election and predestination as opposed to what the American Baptists feel about the foreknowledge of God being the basis as opposed to divine choice from before the foundations of the world?
By the way. I have always wondered about being 'reformed,' and was wondering if you guys think I am or not, so as to be able to tell which side of the wall I'm on. Thanks.
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DeclareHim
New Member
I am Baptist General Conference I'm somewhat reformed and I'm Covenant in my theology.
BobRyan said:
I don't think either of those verses debunks either of the beliefs you claim they do. Try again. (BTW John 3:16 certainly doesn't debunk covenant theology. I have never even heard that presented as a text against Covenant Theology. I think your confusing Covenant theology as Calvinism the two are seperate although both are usually presented as going hand in hand with each other.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Gal 1:6-11 "One Gospel and ONLY ONE" debunks the claim that mankind was saved by grace AFTER the Cross via the New Covenant and mankind was saved "by something else" pre-cross.
John 3:16 "God so Loved the World" debunks the idea of "some selected" (The Gospel of arbitrary selection) which seems to be central to the idea of "God selected you to be saved, nothing you did got you in and nothing you do gets you out".
In Christ,
Bob
John 3:16 "God so Loved the World" debunks the idea of "some selected" (The Gospel of arbitrary selection) which seems to be central to the idea of "God selected you to be saved, nothing you did got you in and nothing you do gets you out".
In Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Ezekiel 14:16
13"Son of man, if a country sins against Me by committing unfaithfulness, and I stretch out My hand against it, destroy its supply of bread, send famine against it and cut off from it both man and beast,
14even though these three men, Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only deliver themselves," declares the Lord GOD.
15"If I were to cause wild beasts to pass through the land and they depopulated it, and it became desolate so that no one would pass through it because of the beasts,
16though these three men were in its midst, as I live," declares the Lord GOD, "they could not deliver either their sons or their daughters. They alone would be delivered, but the country would be desolate.
17"Or if I should bring a sword on that country and say, 'Let the sword pass through the country and cut off man and beast from it,'
18even though these three men were in its midst, as I live," declares the Lord GOD, "they could not deliver either their sons or their daughters, but they alone would be delivered.
19"Or if I should send a plague against that country and pour out My wrath in blood on it to cut off man and beast from it, 20even though Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, as I live," declares the Lord GOD, "they could not deliver either their son or their daughter. They would deliver only themselves by their righteousness."
13"Son of man, if a country sins against Me by committing unfaithfulness, and I stretch out My hand against it, destroy its supply of bread, send famine against it and cut off from it both man and beast,
14even though these three men, Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, by their own righteousness they could only deliver themselves," declares the Lord GOD.
15"If I were to cause wild beasts to pass through the land and they depopulated it, and it became desolate so that no one would pass through it because of the beasts,
16though these three men were in its midst, as I live," declares the Lord GOD, "they could not deliver either their sons or their daughters. They alone would be delivered, but the country would be desolate.
17"Or if I should bring a sword on that country and say, 'Let the sword pass through the country and cut off man and beast from it,'
18even though these three men were in its midst, as I live," declares the Lord GOD, "they could not deliver either their sons or their daughters, but they alone would be delivered.
19"Or if I should send a plague against that country and pour out My wrath in blood on it to cut off man and beast from it, 20even though Noah, Daniel and Job were in its midst, as I live," declares the Lord GOD, "they could not deliver either their son or their daughter. They would deliver only themselves by their righteousness."
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